Live SEO Coaching in the Midst of a Pivot w/ Donna Piper
“How can I boil everything I do down to just a few words or sentences for SEO?”
My friend, Donna Piper shared that quote^^ and it’s why I asked her to come back on the podcast!
This is a Q+A / Hot Seat type of episode where we take a look at Donna’s website. I point out opportunities I notice & share what she could do to take advantage of them—and—answer her questions along the way.
We stop to review her:
-Home page
-Blog page
-Podcast page
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
The importance of being clear on what you're offering—even if you don’t love the words
The most SEO-friendly way to promote your podcast episodes (it includes blogging 😉)
If all podcasts need an additional blog post to go along with it
How to weave in internal links (links from one page to another on your website)
Some of Donna’s favorite SEO resources that she’s used over the years
How to create a strategic and effective marketing game plan as a solopreneur
Tools Brittany likes using to do SEO reviews/audits of websites
…And which 3 parts of the site she’s specifically reviewing (and why)
Quick overview of SEO terms & definitions (like SEO title & meta description)
Real time walkthrough of 3 web page optimizations for SEO
A surprisingly good time to optimize for SEO
If you’ve picked up & put down this SEO thing in the past, tune in! This might just be the episode that makes it all click 😉
Because, as you’ll hear, even the teeniest, TINIEST of tweaks can impact your visibility & lead gen in a big way!
Meet: Donna Piper
Donna Piper is an Integrative Movement and Chronic Illness Specialist and the host of Dear Body, I’m Listening. With over 25 years of experience in Pilates and Dance Movement Therapy, she helps women with conditions like Lipedema, MCAS, and Chronic Fatigue reconnect with their bodies through gentle, trauma-informed movement and emotional healing. Her work bridges science and soul, blending nervous system regulation, somatic tools, and real talk about what it means to live — and heal — in a sensitive body.
Links:
Let SEO Work While You Rest (Brittany on Donna’s podcast)
Podcast SEO Resource and/or Podcast SEO Workshop (happening live on 12/12)
Business Owner’s Guide to Blogging
Mentioned Resources:
Styled Stock Society (sale til 12/1, use code SSSBF)
Ubersuggest (free Chrome Extension)
Detailed SEO (free Chrome Extension)
Related Episodes:
Pinterest + SEO w/ Meagan Williamson
Connect w/ Donna:
Connect w/ Brittany:
This episode of The Basic B podcast is brought to you in partnership w/ Leah Bryant Co.! Help me reach more service providers like you by following the show & leaving a rating or review on Apple & Spotify!
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Basic B podcast follows
Brittany Herzberg:
Hello and welcome back to the Basic Bee podcast. I'm Brittany Herzberg, your go to SEO strategist and coach, and today I'm joined by one of my friends, Donna Piper. We're going to be talking all about surprise SEO, but specifically we're going to be doing a Q and A hot seat type of episode. I'm going to take a look at Donna's website. I'll point out any opportunities that I'm noticing and what she could do to take advantage of them. And I'll be answering her questions along the way before I bring her on. Here's a bit about Donna. Donna Piper is an integrative movement and chronic illness specialist and the host of Dear Body. I'm listening. With over 25 years of experience in Pilates and dance movement therapy, she helps women with conditions like lipedema, MCAs, and chronic fatigue reconnect with their bodies through gentle trauma, informed movement, and emotional healing. Her work bridges science and soul, blending nervous system regulation, somatic tools, and real talk about what it means to live and heal in a sensitive body. Hello, my friend.
Donna Piper:
Hello. Thank you for having me.
Brittany Herzberg:
Um, of course. We were just talking before we hit record, and you were one of my first guests on here way back when.
Donna Piper:
I can't believe. Two years. Happy anniversary.
Brittany Herzberg:
I know we're almost there. I. I always round up. Daniel's always like, we're not there yet.
Donna Piper:
Well, that's kind of like having a toddler or being almost like 21, I guess.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, we're just rounding it up. Well, I'm so glad and grateful that you were willing to join me for this because I know people like listening to the Q and A and the coaching stuff because it really helps them. So there are no dumb questions. None whatsoever.
Donna Piper:
Okay, I'll try.
Brittany Herzberg:
Not even seriously, so just keep that in mind. I'll walk us through some different things and just anywhere along the way, if you have questions or need clarification. Okay, let me know.
Donna Piper:
Sounds great.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay, so as you know, who you help, how you help them, and what you want to be known for are an important starting point. It's how we find the best keywords, which we then use to create solid SEO strategies which help our websites attract those best fit people. So talk to me a little bit about what you're doing now because we did talk about things way back when, but things have shifted.
Donna Piper:
Yes.
Brittany Herzberg:
So.
Donna Piper:
Poor Brittany. I've shifted so many times since we met, but always about people in healing. Like, that's always been like, the thing, because I do Have a master's degree in dance movement psychotherapy. I have had a lot of like clinical work that way. But I also was a Pilates instructor and still am for 25 years. I mean, Brittany knows this has just been difficult for me. Brick and mortar. I can do it in person, but there's something about having to commit to it. I think that's the thing. Committing to words that reflect me and only in a certain way, especially with SEO or any other. Just like how do I boil it down into this thing that I could say three sentences about? Like that's been super difficult for me since we've met each other and I've had my relationship and coaching business and with all my body things, it's kind of always pushing me back to Pilates and movement. Even though I do all the spiritual woo stuff always the body has to be and part of it. And it was. But I think now it's just really especially for my own kind of healing as I see a big gap in movement for people that have different sort of non normative bodies that don't respond the same way to fat loss, to strength training, to stretching, all of these things that there's a lot of areas to flare.
Brittany Herzberg:
I was noticing with your website. I mean, it's a great resource for anyone who's going through anything. And of course the link will be in the show notes. But on that note, I am curious, like how are you packaging how you're helping people? Are there courses? Are you coaching? Is there something else? Like what does that look like? Or what's the plan?
Donna Piper:
So the plan is I have this PDF with a Pilates video, like for $7. That's kind of mainly what I'm going to be selling. So my big macro thing and Brittany knows my, like I have a lot of really great ideas. The details, yeah, is difficult. That's why I have SEO website issues. But I would like to have like weekly Pilates classes for people at different levels. The idea is to eventually have group programs where we talk about Pilates and then within the Pilates there is all the other stuff that I do. Like any sort of emotional healing things like that. My podcast is really. Because I had to do all this research and I want to share the information. So I do like also having resources for people like if they've never heard of this or they suspect they might have lipedema or hypermobility or mcas or pots or chronic fatigue that they could go to other websites. I'm kind of the middleman.
Brittany Herzberg:
Exactly. Yeah. You're helping connect them. Yeah, I get it. You actually did this. And even before we were recording, I'm always the person that's like, oh, if you ever need. Here's this.
Donna Piper:
Yep, you have some good.
Brittany Herzberg:
So you're that for your chronic illness support. And I was poking around on your website before. So just to give a lay of the land, she has a website with multiple pages. You've got a podcast. And then I was curious and I wanted to ask you about the blog. Is that something that you are keeping up with or is that something you want to be keeping up with? Like, give me a feel for that.
Donna Piper:
That is a really good question. And that is one of the good questions I have for you. Because my producers for my podcast, because they put a transcript on my page, basically they've told me that doing a blog would just be redundant. Oh, no, no, no.
Brittany Herzberg:
So I'll give you a quick answer to that and I'll do it in an example the way that I do my vlogs for my podcast, because I've got weekly podcast episodes. Some are solo, some are guest, but I always write a podcast blog. At the bottom of that, I include the transcript, but I've got a section with links. I've got a section where I can point people to other episodes that they could listen to. If there are guests on the episode, I can put point them in the direction of that person's website. So it's not like right or wrong, but the way I do it, I include the episode audio on the blog post so someone can listen to it there. It still counts as a podcast download, which is great for those of us who are podcast hosts. But there's a bit of an intro, some bullet lists of the different topics that are talked about, and then, you know, what do you do if you want to take further action beyond that? Here's some episodes you can listen to, here's some free resources, paid resources, whatever. And then I do include the transcript at the bottom. Just publishing the transcript isn't a blog post for a podcast. One, you wouldn't want to do that, and two, it wouldn't be redundant because you'd have ideally have some other stuff.
Donna Piper:
That's what I thought because it could just be repurposed into a blog and link all that stuff. But they're saying, oh, you don't really need.
Brittany Herzberg:
And you could also do the blog differently too. Some people take the transcript and they'll pull out like H2 headlines, H3 headlines, and they'll Zhuzhou the transcript itself. And use that as a blog post, which you could do. I mean, that's an example. But there's a few different ways you could do it. The way I do it, I just got it down to a science. It works for me. It gets people to my website. It gets people listening to the podcast.
Donna Piper:
Well, we went over blogs before. I love the resource. Like how you taught me how to do blogs. Amazing.
Brittany Herzberg:
Thank you.
Donna Piper:
I loved it.
Brittany Herzberg:
There's two different resources. And, Donna, if you don't have these, I'll make sure you have them. But there's a business owner's guide to blogging, and then there's another one that's called a podcast SEO resource. So. So if you get the podcast SEO resource, it'll specifically walk you through how am I doing keyword research for podcasts. How am I optimizing the episode in something like Buzzsprouter, Libsyn. And then how do I take it and turn it into a blog post specifically about this podcast episode? And then the other one, the business owner's guide to blogging, is just blogging in general, and it walks you through every single step of the way. Keyword research, selecting a topic, all that jazz. So I'll make sure those are linked. We can certainly have more of a conversation about that. And from like, a. An efforting standpoint, is the blogging maybe a longer term? Like something more out in the future? Like, I'll get to it.
Donna Piper:
Yeah. I mean, I think that's something I can do while I'm recovering as well. I can take over. Britney has a really great resource for everything. Tiny PMG saved my life with images. Everything was, like, way too big, and I really liked it. I was really into it when I was doing it, so I. I like that part of it.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay.
Donna Piper:
And I think it would also make things, like, flow better. So. But I have Kajabi. So anyone out there that has Kajabi, this also is a good podcast for you. That's where I. My podcast lives. But you talked about Buzzsprout, which I had some private podcasts on. Buzzsprouts, and I like. And then. But Libsync, you know, I pay for kajabi, so I don't really want to pay for another thing. But do I need to move to a different platform for my podcast?
Brittany Herzberg:
Well, no. And knowing that now I understand why the team is saying that it would be redundant because you are publishing that post. If I go to your podcast and I scroll down. Yeah, the notes are right there. So that is essentially the blog Post, so you don't need to create anything additional. They're right.
Donna Piper:
Oh, okay. Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
I have a client where she hosts on WordPress and her podcast is within her WordPress website and we do the same thing. So I just write one show note. I'm only writing one thing, but the links are in there. And I just looked at yours. Like you've got links in there and all that kind of stuff, so.
Donna Piper:
Oh, okay. So you know I suck at Instagram.
Brittany Herzberg:
You don't.
Donna Piper:
But Pinterest. Do you use Pinterest? I mean, I know this is.
Brittany Herzberg:
No, no, no. I have not mastered it. And it's something that I definitely want to add in. I've just had to be really strategic. Like you were talking about this earlier. Like, there's a lot of stuff. So it's what can I focus on now and master? And then, okay, I'll add on something else or I'll hire something else out for whatever. Pinterest and blogging and podcast. Amazing trio.
Donna Piper:
Cause that's something I would like to do.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah.
Donna Piper:
Just as another SEO tie in.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, it would be really smart and really strategic. And I do have a podcast episode with Megan Williamson. She's a Pinterest whiz. She also has a Pinterest basics course talking about me having a resource. I don't have one. Megan does, so I'll make sure that's included too. But yeah, that would be a great plan. And I would say that would be a good use of your time.
Donna Piper:
How you taught me how to do. The podcasts are much prettier than I think my notes are in my blog. Right.
Brittany Herzberg:
I mean, they're close. They're really close.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
And you can go look at my website too, just as an example, not because it's the best thing ever, but the blog page. And at this time, all of my blogs are my podcast blogs. But the idea for me is to get in more of those, like, normal, quote unquote blogs. But, like, where it says connect with Donna, that could be a headline. I don't think it's a headline right now. It's not. So that could be, for example, like an H3 headline. Episode Highlights could be a headline. You've got lots of good things in here. And you have links like the one I clicked on happened to be with a guest. And. And you've got links to her website, her LinkedIn profile, all that stuff. The other thing is the episode transcript. I used to put it in how your team is doing it right now where it's just the whole thing. Now, if you go to the bottom of that blog post for one of my podcast episodes, I have a box. And so it's small and you scroll within the box, so that way it doesn't make the page look so long. That could be something they could look into.
Donna Piper:
Oh, okay. To make it like a pop out.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, exactly. The whole thing isn't eating up an entire page. It's just like small in a box. And you can go and scroll it. Okay.
Donna Piper:
All right, well, that makes me feel better.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, I mean, it's really close. And then the other thing I would have them do is look at the SEO title and the meta description, which is one of the things we're gonna talk about when we get to your website stuff too. So. No, it's close. We have some refining we could do, but, like, we're not that bad.
Donna Piper:
All right, well, that makes me feel better.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah. Yay. And they weren't wrong. Turns out they were actually breaking up their. Right.
Donna Piper:
Well. Cause I have kajabi.
Brittany Herzberg:
Well, everybody has different. For example, I have to use buzzsprout because I have squarespace. I don't have to use buzzsprout. I love using buzzsprout.
Donna Piper:
I loved it. It was really easy.
Brittany Herzberg:
It's so easy. And like, with my client who's on WordPress, she has to use, I think it's called Blueberry as like a plugin thing. So, like, I don't even understand how it all works. I just know where I need to go to listen to it and then to write the show note. But, yeah, everybody's got their own tech stack. But the fact that you have it on your website means that you don't have to create that additional blog post. You're just writing one thing, and that.
Donna Piper:
Is helping me for SEO. Somewhere in there, definitely. Or whatever. Okay, now we're going ahead. But are these backlinks as well that will help because they're links to other people, like Heather or whoever you were just on. If people are searching for her, that helps my SEO as well. It could potentially if they somehow find that link or search these certain things.
Brittany Herzberg:
And click to your website. Yeah, exactly. Okay. The links that are in that blog post, that podcast episode, are going out away from your website. So those aren't backlinks. Those are external links. Those are taking traffic off your site. That's not a bad thing. But the one that we get the SEO juice from is when, let's say Heather includes a blog on her website about. I was on Donna's Podcast and then links to you. That would be a backlink because it's sending traffic to you. Got it. That's ideal, is when someone is on a podcast, they write a blog, and then it gets traffic over to your website, possibly, or something.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
Or at least gives exposure to the podcast. So one thing I want to talk through are the potential keywords. So I'm not going to go into it because it's a whole thing, but we really want to have ideal keywords in order to again, create the strategies to get the right people to the website pages, whatever the page may be. So I gathered a few, and I want to know from you if you feel like it's representative. I mostly looked at your. A little bit of the copy on your website, but your bio had a lot of good stuff in it, so I started there. Okay. So lipedema support seems to be a good. Yes, good one. Trauma informed movement therapy.
Donna Piper:
Yes. Now it's trauma informed Passe. Now I feel like it's very saturated.
Brittany Herzberg:
No, I say it and I use it for stuff. Okay.
Donna Piper:
All right.
Brittany Herzberg:
I have a lot of therapists I work with, so that comes up a lot. No, and I was actually really thrilled because I saw that it was a whole phrase, Trauma informed movement therapy. I was like, oh, this is great.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
Chronic illness resources that's going to come up with one of your pages and then trust your body was something that I saw somewhere on your website. And I was like, oh, I wonder if that. It's a great keyword. And then chronic illness podcast.
Donna Piper:
Oh, do you feel like that fits? Totally.
Brittany Herzberg:
I was like, this could be good. Okay, so that's just a short little list that I'm going to be working with as I'm looking through, because I wanted to have some words that you could like plugin. But again, we're looking at your website. You've got multiple pages. You have the podcast and the blog. And then I'm gonna talk you through what I look for when I do a quick website audit of what's going on from an SEO standpoint.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
I'll give some suggestions of what you could do. There's really like, three main things I'm looking at, and I've got a couple different examples we could talk through. And then this is where you might be asking a lot of questions as we go through here. So just stop me when I start talking too fast and I go past the stop sign and you're like, wait a minute. Okay. So the first thing I'm looking at when I go to any website. And I'll include these links in the show notes. There are some different tools I like using. One is the ubersuggest free Chrome extension, because that will help me see website traffic, keyword rankings, backlinks at a quick glance. I also like using something called the detailed SEO Chrome extension that's going to help me see SEO titles, meta descriptions, H1 headlines, and then Semrush also has a free link that you can plug in your website and it'll tell you some of the same stuff as ubersuggest. What are the keywords that your site is ranking for? Are you showing up in any AI searches? What is the traffic to your website looking like? So I already did that with your website and the traffic is slow. Love you. The keyword rankings are also low, and the only one that I saw actually relates to what you were doing and it was attract love, which I thought was kind of cool.
Donna Piper:
That is. That's great. Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah. So that's the only keyword. And when I say keyword ranking, just in case anyone doesn't know what this means, it's what keywords are search engines associating with your website. So attract love. Not so hopeful now, but it was great.
Donna Piper:
Okay. Hey, at least something worked. I. That's. I. I just like that there is some like, oh, okay, you know, I abandoned it, of course. Like, I like to build up and burn down my life over and over.
Brittany Herzberg:
So keeps the adventure going. So that's what I was noticing. Keywords are low, traffic is low. But that's an opportunity because if we take any of the steps with the next three things, it'll really help and it'll help quickly. So after I see the keywords and the website traffic, I'm looking at your SEO title and your meta description. Quick refresher for anyone who needs it. Your SEO title and your meta description are pieces of copy that go in the back end of your website. And the one and only time they come out and they really need to do their job is when someone goes to Google or wherever, they type something in the search bar and then the results page pops up. That is showing your SEO title as the blue hyperlinked text, and it's showing your meta description as the gray one to two sentences under that. The title really needs to function like a headline that stops someone in their tracks. And the meta description really needs to act like a summary of what someone would find on the page. So I wanted to talk through the example of an SEO title for your podcast page, because we have that great keyword that I found. So you're going to want to keep this between 40 and 60 characters maximum, including spaces, and you want to have the target keyword in your SEO title. So if we use the keyword of chronic illness podcast, like, let's use that in workshop and on the fly. Best of luck to all of us. It's Dear Body, I'm listening. Right, okay, so this could work. I just have Dear body, comma, I'm listening with a bar, and then Chronic illness podcast, and. And that comes in at 50 characters, which is perfect. So that could be your SEO title.
Donna Piper:
So where would I put that in?
Brittany Herzberg:
On the back end of every website, the SEO title has a slightly different name. It could be page title, SEO title, meta title, or just title sometimes. Are you seeing any of those?
Donna Piper:
I think Kajabi is. You really have to have a little bit more sense.
Brittany Herzberg:
Well, they don't make it easy for you. No, it's not a user problem, it's a software problem. It takes a little bit of hunting on Kajabi. From what I remember, I haven't been on there in ages because don't hate me, but I don't love Kajabi. It's kind of a pain, and I feel bad telling anyone that. And I don't know that it was really intended to be a website platform. So it struggles to. Sometimes even getting an accurate read on the data can be a little bit of a problem from an SEO standpoint because it's so many things. It's a course platform and a podcast and a website and a. You know. So it just confuses everyone.
Donna Piper:
Exactly. There is a place in the back end where it does say SEO and social sharing, and then it says SEO can improve, blah, blah, blah. So they have a page title, a page description.
Brittany Herzberg:
So this would be your page title.
Donna Piper:
Okay, so. But it's just for the whole website.
Brittany Herzberg:
Oh, where you have it? I wouldn't do anything yet. Hold off on plugging anything in. We'll take a look at this. Oh, I have a feeling I know what's going on, but I need to see it.
Donna Piper:
Oh, okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
So at least talking this out. We could have the SEO title for the podcast page. Say Dear Body. I'm listening. Chronic illness podcast. And that sounds good to you?
Donna Piper:
Yes.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay. Like, that's one improvement, because right now it just says Dear body. I'm listening. Listening. Does it say anything else? Yeah, it just says Dear Body. I'm listening. So it doesn't even have podcast in the SEO title. Oh, okay. And just that little bit of a change, it was one of the first things that I did for my website. It's one of the first things I have my clients do that can spike more traffic just because it's like, oh, this is a podcast and it gets more people to the page. Yeah.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
So that's why it's a low hanging fruit. And that's why it's one of the first things I'm like, we gotta do this, people.
Donna Piper:
Perfect.
Brittany Herzberg:
And then for the meta description, which is that like summary that we see on a search results page and on the back end of your site, I think you said that it was page description.
Donna Piper:
Yes.
Brittany Herzberg:
So page description would be what we're looking for. Let's take a look at your homepage because I know that one that's plugged in is a bit long.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
So that we really want to be 140 to 155 characters. And right now yours is clocking in at 2:26, which is not, it's not unheard of. Like there have been paragraphs in here. So one thing is pay attention to the character count. So maximum 155 characters. But also another tip that I've seen work well for meta descriptions is to write it in first person. So to write it as if you are talking to the person who is seeing this show up in the search results page. Talking to Donna 12 months ago of, you know, I'm trying to find help and resources and how do I do that? You know, you would want to work in a keyword, but. And I always say write it first. You can often pull some copy from your website page, whatever the page is that we're writing the meta description for. And then just make sure that it sounds like it's speaking to one person. Make sure that the target keyword is in there and, and make sure that it's no more than 155 characters.
Donna Piper:
155.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay. Yeah. So if I come over and I just take a quick look, I mean even what you have in the hero section at the top, not the big words, but the smaller one where it says gentle Pilates and chronic illness Friendly movement for women with lipedema, chronic fatigue, MCAs, hypermobility and pain sensitive bodies. So that could be a starting point and just like pull that copy and then again write it in first person. Which you did a good job. You could probably just leave it how it is. You have keywords already in there. And then we would just want to make sure that it's got the 155 characters maximum. Okay, but like, that's an example of what you could do with these pages is go to the page, look at the copy, see something that really summarizes what's going on on that page, and then pull it and judge it.
Donna Piper:
Oh, okay, that's easy. Easier than having to write, you know, another thing.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah. So that would be what you could do there. So SEO title, meta description. Those are two things I'm looking at because again, it's low hanging fruit. Those pieces of copy need to go pull in people for you. And so that's some ways that you could do that. And then the next thing I'm looking at, and the final thing is your H1 headline. So for anyone who doesn't know when you go to a website page or a blog post page or any page, the H1 headline is typically that big text, the bigger font that you see toward the top of the page in what they call the hero section. And if you've been with me, you'll know what I'm about to say. But we need one and only one H1 for every single page. So that is something that you could look at for how could I make this have more keywords and actually work for me? So something that often happens is like an about page. People will just say about at the top in the H1 headline. And I love you, but that's not doing anything for you. But one I saw earlier that I really liked what you had already and it actually helped me find a keyword to just verify. Oh, this is doing work for you. Was your resources page. So you've got the Chronic Healing Resource Hub. And remember one of the keywords I mentioned was chronic illness resources. So I kind of like your headline how it is and I don't think I would change it. It just says Chronic Illness Healing Resource Hub. And it's right there. So it's just like green check mark. You're doing a great job.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yay.
Donna Piper:
I got. I did one. So to go back for the 155. So Kajabi has a thing where it says page title and page description. So the Gentle Pilates, Chronic Friendly Illness, blah blah blah. That's 142 characters.
Brittany Herzberg:
Good.
Donna Piper:
So it's under the 155. But above that I have an option for page title. Should I put Chronic illness.
Brittany Herzberg:
That was for your homepage. That one would take a little bit more thinking. Oh, and that's why I didn't have that one in here.
Donna Piper:
Okay, no problem. I just Thought maybe I'm.
Brittany Herzberg:
No. So that one would be what you're really looking for as far as keywords to target or focus on for your homepage is what do you really want to get found for? It could be a combination of who you help and how you help them.
Donna Piper:
Right now it's 60 characters, and it says chronic illness, emotional support, and trauma healing. But it's not totally.
Brittany Herzberg:
And how I'm seeing this show up, it's 78 characters, so it's a little bit long. And it's like, for who? For what?
Donna Piper:
So I'm just gonna do Pilates for lipedema.
Brittany Herzberg:
You know what might be a good one from the list that I pulled would be possibly see how this feels. Something with Trauma Informed Movement Therapy. And I have an idea that maybe we can even pull two of these together.
Donna Piper:
Perfect. Thank you. So I was doing good on my resources page, and then the Trauma Informed movement therapy is 32 characters. How it's showing me here I had.
Brittany Herzberg:
Another keyword, and I was like, ooh, could we merge these together, see how this sounds? Lipedema Support and Trauma Informed Movement Therapy.
Donna Piper:
Oh, smart. See, this is why you're the SEO girl, because yay. So I put lipedema support, Trauma Informed Movement Therapy, and that shows that 49 characters for me.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay. I'm showing 51, so I wonder if mine might have spaces or something. But that's good. Regardless. It's in that range of 40 to 60, which is good.
Donna Piper:
All right, well, then that's amazing. I love that.
Brittany Herzberg:
So you've got something in there for your SEO title, something in there for your meta description for your homepage. I love this. And then sticking with the homepage, I also noticed your H1. So your H1 has the basically the four lines, so move with compassion, heal with safety, finally, trust your body again. And we could keep that.
Donna Piper:
Okay. Or.
Brittany Herzberg:
Or we could. Because trust your body was a keyword that I saw. But what we really want to do with an SEO strategy for a page is keep it cohesive. Okay. So if we're gonna go with something like Lipedema Support and Trauma Informed Movement Therapy as your SEO title for your homepage, we could have something like that, if not the very same thing for the homepage. H1 headline.
Donna Piper:
So it's. It's the gold stuff on the photo. That's what I'm changing, correct?
Brittany Herzberg:
Yes, yes, the big, bold text.
Donna Piper:
Yeah, the big one. The bold text. Okay. Lipedema support.
Brittany Herzberg:
You could say lipedema support and Trauma Informed Movement Therapy for women. Because you did say somewhere that you want to focus with women, right?
Donna Piper:
Yeah.
Brittany Herzberg:
And I know we're changing these on the fly, but does it feel okay? Does it sound okay to you? Yeah.
Donna Piper:
Cause I never really know, like, what is the best. I mean, there's so many copy things and iterations of stuff I could do. Um, because I teach Pilates. Should that be there, or.
Brittany Herzberg:
No, this is why I was asking what offers you have, because whatever the offer is, you could have that included in the homepage. And really what I would want to do, like, we are fixing this on the fly, and I'm one of those people that wants to sit there and think about it and strategize. But this will be helpful even to change it to just this stuff. So you could have. I mean, does movement therapy cover what you do? Or do you want to have Pilates somewhere in your body?
Donna Piper:
Yeah, that's the thing, like, with all these things. I think that's why I think you're so good at what you do. Seriously. Because I'm like, they could kind of fall over all of this stuff. And in the end of it, like, when people work with me, they do get benefit out of what we are doing. It's just kind of the language that I need people to come here for.
Brittany Herzberg:
Exactly. It's just, what do we say to get them in? Yeah.
Donna Piper:
Yeah. So. And that's always the hardest part. And then doing. Making sure they're. What People are also searching in their keyboard. That's the hardest thing always for me to be like, what are people searching for? I have no idea.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, you do know a lot of it, though, because you did do a lot of research for things, and you're able to use that with your. Definitely with your podcast episode titles, you know?
Donna Piper:
Yeah. I mean, I think, like. Like, if you ask me socially, like, oh, what do you do? Like, that makes sense. But there's some. And I don't know if anyone else there. I have, like, this paralysis when I have to commit to these words.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah.
Donna Piper:
I'm like, okay. Are they putting in these things? Yeah, Like, I guess I have a commitment issue.
Brittany Herzberg:
You're not the only one, which I.
Donna Piper:
Already knew that I have. Like, I don't have a routine. I like to change things up. I don't like to be locked into something. So, I mean, how I used to be in the world is like, people would refer me and people would meet me, and either people would want to work with me or they wouldn't. Like, that's how I lived my whole life. Is, like, in person. Like, they either, like, were drawn to me or they weren't. So this whole thing online has been confounding. So I'm really appreciative for you because I'm like, how do I at least have them find me to see if they're like, yes or no? Right.
Brittany Herzberg:
You're not the only one who has that feeling or who meets that resistance. And I'm actually really glad that you're mentioning this because one thing that I say, like, I don't have commitment issues. However, I change a lot. I mean, I went from massage therapy to copywriting to SEO. And like, who does that? It's weird. But you're not married to the stuff that we're plugging in for the SEO things. I would like you to let it sit for three months. But if after three months you're like, I'm done with it, you can be. It's okay. And it's more about, like, zooming out. And what is the impression on the whole of your website that the website is giving the search engines? Do they at least know enough that Donna knows stuff about chronic illnesses and she's got resources and she does movement therapy and she offers trauma informed Pilates. Like, that's the kind of thing that we want to get across to the search engines. And we will. And for those times when you want to go even deeper with, I want to say that I do trauma informed Pilates or however you want to phrase it, could be an image title, could be a blog post that you write, could be a future podcast episode. So all of those things that you really are feeling in the moment that you want to go deep on, do that in the form of content.
Donna Piper:
Oh, okay, great. So I changed it. And how does it look on your end?
Brittany Herzberg:
Let me go refresh. Oh, my gosh, we have action taker up in the house.
Donna Piper:
I love that.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay. You could say lipedema support on the. On its own line or the way that I had written it on my end at least was lipedema support and trauma informed movement therapy for women. So totally up to you how you want to phrase it.
Donna Piper:
Do I need to write it by a sentence or do these words need to be capitalized? So I'm just putting.
Brittany Herzberg:
And right there.
Donna Piper:
Right, right.
Brittany Herzberg:
Just lipedema support and. And then trauma informed movement therapy for women is totally fine. So basically just removing the period after support and then putting. And there.
Donna Piper:
The other thing I don't like about kajabi and not that this is a kajabi rant but it is harder how they have you do like, I don't know, adding these things.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, the backend is very confusing. Yeah.
Donna Piper:
So if I do that, let me.
Brittany Herzberg:
Know when you update it and then I'll refresh on my end.
Donna Piper:
Okay. How does that look for now? Good.
Brittany Herzberg:
Perfect.
Donna Piper:
Okay, great.
Brittany Herzberg:
That's exactly what I was thinking. And then does the SEO title read kind of like that too, where it just says lipedema support and. Oh, wait, I can check it. Hold on.
Donna Piper:
I think I don't have the word and.
Brittany Herzberg:
Right. So put in ampersand or a plus sign or something. For anyone listening, that can be a space saver when you are kind of getting up to that limit with your character count, with the SEO titles and with the meta description.
Donna Piper:
Okay.
Brittany Herzberg:
You'll see anything I write. I sometimes use numbers or symbols like the ampersand or the plus sign or the bar. And that's why.
Donna Piper:
Because it's a space saver and that's in the. In the meta. Specifically the SEO. Like one to. To use those numbers or symbols.
Brittany Herzberg:
Okay.
Donna Piper:
When you're doing meta.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yes, exactly.
Donna Piper:
Or whatever I'm sure I'm calling it.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah, you're good. SEO title and meta description.
Donna Piper:
Okay. All right. So I did that. I put an ampersand there.
Brittany Herzberg:
You're doing great. I love it. Yeah, that's perfect. I'm so proud of you. Okay.
Donna Piper:
And that's good to know that once your website is good for traffic, then you write content or add things based on the more detailed specific. So this is more. I've never been good at that. Like, here's your store, then look at the items inside concept. I think that it has to be. Everything I do has to be in one sentence and all encompassing. So. And it doesn't.
Brittany Herzberg:
So there's actually some freedom there, some spaciousness where you can have all the ideas and you can do all the things. There's always a way to do it. But until you know this and until you have a conversation with someone, you're like, I'm being pigeonholed. I mean, stuck in a box. And I don't want to go in the box. Right.
Donna Piper:
I don't want to go in the box. And what if the box is wrong? I think also too, like, what if. Then I'm doing the wrong words. Yeah.
Brittany Herzberg:
But I will say this. Having some words in there and them turning out to be quote unquote wrong, which you really can't do if you have the right intention and you've answered those three questions, it's My subtle nudge to sit down and do that. As long as you have something in there, it's going to be so much more helpful than having nothing in there. So even you coming on the call and having some SEO titles that were long or meta descriptions that were long, you had something in there much better than starting out with a blank box. Okay.
Donna Piper:
And all of the keywords that you found actually are representative, so that I could mix those in in real time. Then I think that's fine. Right. For now, to test. Right.
Brittany Herzberg:
Exactly. It's a placeholder. At least for now. You're not married to it. You have the right to change it. You have the right to, you know, do different things with your business. And when you do now, you know what to plug in, where to plug it in.
Donna Piper:
So hopefully this is helpful for your listeners as well.
Brittany Herzberg:
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure you'll have to let us know, though. I shouldn't just assume. I've heard before that the Q and A and the coaching style episodes are very helpful. So I know that and I always love hearing and Donna would love to hear, too. And we'll make sure that your website and your podcast and definitely the episode I was on with you, we'll make sure all of those are linked below. Is there anything else that you want us to know about?
Donna Piper:
Thank you so much for all of this and I will let you know. Well, attract love. I'm sure I did that with you like two years ago or whenever I think. So it ranked. We know. So now I just changed all my stuff. But that's good too. Like, if anyone's out there listening, like, knowing if you have Brittany to help you with SEO. I guess when you change, you just have to figure out how to change your SEO.
Brittany Herzberg:
Yeah. Any of my clients who have changed, like, I actually end up working with a lot of people who are in the process of switching over. Like, they have been doing X career and they want to niche down a little bit more and help, like a specific population or they're doing something like I did and going completely different from massage to copywriting. And people are actually very nervous that that's not the right time to do SEO. And that's actually the perfect time to do SEO, because then you can find the keywords and then we can talk through where you can use them. And then, you know, okay, I'm going to do the SEO titles, the meta descriptions, the H1 headlines, all the things for the web pages. And then just like what you said earlier, this is What I talk people through. Optimize your main website pages and then worry about content, because the content is what's going to keep things sustainable. The SEO titles and meta descriptions and H1 headings and all of that is what gets that initial boost. And if you don't follow it up with putting content out there, it starts falling flat, and then people are wondering why, and that's why.
Donna Piper:
That's so smart. So. Oh, thank you so much. So I highly recommend Britney for. For anyone out there. Like, seriously, like your blog thing. Like that whole thing that we did a while ago. I loved it, especially because you made it fun and you're very good at giving technical stuff and how to make it applicable. Just like this, finding these things, like, I know you. I probably have it written somewhere. We probably talked about this. But the fact that you were able to find it and you know what you're looking for. And I'm like, huh? Because I've been, like, confused. So it's very helpful to have someone like that knows what they're doing. You're definitely a star in the SEO world, in my opinion.
Brittany Herzberg:
Thank you. Thank you. It's been fun to watch you have different iterations of stuff, though, because it really can just grow with you and meet you where you're at.
Donna Piper:
Yeah. And I think you have changed, you know, your careers too. I mean, it's definitely an identity thing. Like, oh, my gosh, should I change again? Does it make me look flaky? You know, I've done a lot of. Also, there's all the emotional part of that, too. Probably what makes me more afraid to commit. But I really do think that, you know, I've always. I've been a dancer. Movement has been a part of my whole life, and that wasn't really in my relationship coaching, even though I loved it. Yeah. And I'm good at it. This is something that actually I think is, you know, I'm old now. That's probably something I'll talk about. You are. No, I'm 55. In a couple months. So, yeah, I'm old, Fred, but old. So I think this is really, like, so much so beneficial. So I really appreciate your insights and your clarity.
Brittany Herzberg:
Well, thank you for showing up, asking the questions, even if they felt silly, and just letting us peek into your website so that everybody can learn. I'm really grateful.
Donna Piper:
All right. Thank you so much.
Brittany Herzberg:
You're welcome. All right, I. I will catch you next time.
