The Best CRM: HoneyBook vs Dubsado w/ Colie James
The best CRM softwares are thought to be Dubsado & HoneyBook.
But… which one is better for your service-based or creative business?
That’s what we’re here to discuss today! I’ve got my very own business systems strategist, Colie James, with me for this convo.
In fact… shortly after we recorded this episode, Colie completely overhauled my HoneyBook automations. I feel like a brand new woman with a whole new sexy workflow & client experience situation! We discuss that in Part 2 of this podcast series. (On The Business-First Creatives Podcast!)
Also being revealed in Part 2 is the case study I wrote about Colie doing my HoneyBook automations setup. 🎉 (My life is weirdly meta, friends!) I’m so excited for you to be able to play with & see all the things! So let’s start off with this HB vs Dubsado conversation with Colie. ↓
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
How SEO helped Colie build her businesses
What Dubsado and HoneyBook are
Why businesses need CRMs
When a business should get a CRM
How a CRM supports the client experience
The benefits of automating client communication
What Colie did before setting up her CRM
How to know which CRM is best for your business
What it’s like to get help with Dubsado or HoneyBook setup
If Dubsado or HoneyBook is better for CEOs with teams
The price difference between Dubsado and HoneyBook
The pros and cons of Dubsado and HoneyBook
The one thing Colie wants ALL business owners to create
What to prepare before working with someone like Colie for a CRM setup
How keyword research and business workflows support each other
How frequently to do a review of business systems and workflows
Which CRM Colie loves most—and why
and then…
Check out Part 2 of this series on The Business-First Creatives Podcast ⬇️
Meet: Colie
Colie James is a Disney-loving family filmmaker, Workflow & Automations Guru, and the host of the Business-First Creatives podcast. She’s based in Denver Colorado & her heart pumps in helping photographers & creative service providers automate their processes, reclaim their time and get back to living! The truth she wants us all to know—is that automated systems can save us all from being overworked and overwhelmed.
Links & Resources:
SEO through Case Studies w/ Brittany (Business-First Creatives Podcast)
Connect w/ Colie:
HoneyBook vs. Dubsado (blog post)
Connect w/ Brittany:
This episode of The Basic B podcast is brought to you in partnership w/ Leah Bryant Co.! Help me reach more service providers like you by following the show & leaving a rating or review on Apple & Spotify!
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Basic B podcast follows
Welcome to The Basic B Podcast, a show for the wannabe SEO savvy service providers among this for the coaches and consultants who dream of becoming known for their storytelling skills. Not to mention the solopreneurs who straight up need to master all things social proof to increase sales. After a little reluctantly, fully committing to this online rather business, I quickly realized I needed to get people to come to me, I needed to tell them I was here and how I could support them. I dove headfirst into social proof which led me to SEO, which led me to storytelling. And now it gives me great joy to share what I've learned with other business owners so they skip the hard stuff and ease straight into sales. This podcast gives you expert insights, actionable takeaways, and casual combos with some of the online world's best and brightest experts and strategists. I think that's enough of an intro. So here we go.
So just in case you aren't aware and you haven't seen, I want you to know that this is part one of a two part series with Colie. Today, you're going to hear about HoneyBook versus Dubsado. We're going to go into detail and have so much fun. And then part two is actually a case study interview with me where we talk through what Colie did to set up my HoneyBook automations. I'm so excited and hopefully I'm crossing my fingers, by now you should also be able to go and check out the written case study that I did for Colie about my experience working with her. So with that, enjoy.
Welcome back to the Basic B Podcast. I am so excited and grateful that you're joining from wherever that is YouTube or any of the 1000s of podcast platforms that now exist. I have got a treat for you. Today, we're going to be talking to my friend Colie James. And we're going to be comparing dubsado versus HoneyBook. So you get a really good idea of what they can do and which one might be good for you and your business. But before we dive in, here's a quick intro for you. Colie James is a Disney loving family filmmaker, workflow and automations guru and the host of the incredible business first creatives podcast. I've been over there because she's based in Denver, Colorado and her heart pumps in helping photographers and creative service providers automate their processes, reclaim their time and get back to living. The truth that she really wants us all to know is that automated systems can save us all from being overworked and overwhelmed, my friend. Hello.
Colie James 2:32
Hello, Brittany, thank you for inviting me on the podcast. I am so excited and congrats to you on this new podcast.
Brittany Herzberg 2:39
Thank you. I'm stoked to have you here. I could not wait to have this conversation, as you know, because I kept being like, we get to talk, we get to talk we got to talk. But before we get into like the main attraction, I do have one question that I ask all of my guests. It is slightly loaded, but there are no wrong answers. So here it is. What do you believe is most important for sales, SEO, social proof or storytelling?
Colie James 3:03
Oh, you know what, we could have a whole podcast episode on this. So I am going to say, for me and my system setups, it's definitely social proof. But I built my entire photography business on SEO. So I'm sorry that I'm not giving you one answer. But each of my businesses has a slightly different tweak on what brings in the most clients and what makes clients more likely to say yes, and pay top dollar.
Brittany Herzberg 3:35
I like that. So for you since you have those two touch points, SEO and social proof, do you feel like they come in at different points of the funnel?
Colie James 3:43
I mean, for my systems business, and since we're going to be talking about dubsado versus honey book today, I feel like the more that I talk about the services, and the more that my students and my clients share how amazing systems can be and how simple I make it. That is what really drives that side of my business. I don't really know what my SEO is for the system side of my business. Well, pretty. That's really, it's really sad for me to admit that out loud. But I know what it is for photography, page one, baby. I mean, I haven't updated that website in three years and still get inquiries. So oh my gosh, it really does its magic over there. Yes. Yeah.
Brittany Herzberg 4:19
And it's the long game. I mean, for sure. I love your honesty, I'm here for it. And we're gonna get more honesty. Okay, let us talk about dubsado versus HoneyBook. And to get started just like a nice lay of the land, in case people are like, what are these two things that you're talking about? What are dubsado and HoneyBook? Why might a business owner want them? What do they do? All right.
Colie James 4:39
So Dubsado and HoneyBook are just two examples of a CRM, which stands for a client relationship manager. And it's basically a piece of software that allows you to manage every aspect of your client experience, the inquiry phase, the booking phase, where they actually pay you real American dollars. Well, you In the USA, they pay you real dollars for your services. And then whatever your onboarding and offboarding processes are, all of those can be managed inside of a CRM, so that you centralize, streamline and automate your processes. And honey book and dubsado just happen to be two of my favorite. And they are also really popular with creative service providers.
Brittany Herzberg 5:24
We do love them. So does it business underneath it like right out the gate? Or is there a good timing that you see for someone to get one of these platforms?
Colie James 5:32
You're like, is there a threshold of how many people how many clients? Okay, yes. So my bottom line is, everyone should get a CRM, the moment that they start taking money, but the reality is, not everyone can afford to number one, pay for one. And number two, have the time and capacity to set it up to get everything going. But I will say that if I had known what a CRM was, when I started my photography, business way back in 2012, I would have gone ahead and invested in one then the earlier you invest in a CRM, the more you're going to be able to like reap the benefits earlier in your business. And so I always say, even if you don't have enough clients to where you feel it justifies a CRM, if you can get the clients that you are managing inside of your CRM, you can centralize the communication, automate some of those emails, it gives you more time and space to market and sell your offers to other people. So even if you've got a small client base, I feel like you still need a CRM, because then you're not spending as much time managing the current clients. And you can go get more clients.
Brittany Herzberg 6:41
Amen, preach. So as listeners know, I have the background with massage therapy. And there was a platform where I was able to use that to help manage relationships with my clients like me, I used the keyword, but I use it in a different way. So I had that, but then I entered the online space. And I was like, I'm good. I've got this on my own friend, don't be me, learn from me, please don't do that you will spend so much time especially if you're like me, where it's like these people really matter. I really care about these relationships. I really want them to feel seen and heard and taken care of, you will run yourself into the ground. So listen to Colie. Listen to us and hear what we're saying about these two different platforms. And maybe it's one of these two, maybe it's something totally different that you end up using, but please use something, and don't try to manage it all on your own. So with that, yeah.
Colie James 7:29
I just wanted to say one thing related to the actual clients. Because again, a lot of people try to say, well, I should get one when I have a certain number of clients. And the truth is, I was spending a lot of time wasted in the beginning of my business, trying to answer questions. Like, for example, Susie's got a session this Saturday, did I send her the prep guide? Did she pay her final invoice? Do I remember what her husband's name is, in the beginning of my business, charging people was in Paypal, sending out questionnaires was in Google Forms. And then emails, I had to look in Gmail to see if I sent the email. And so that's three different places that I was going to look for one client in order to figure out what I had done for them. And so the value of the CRM is so that you don't waste your time trying to look and see what you've done for individual clients, instead of just looking and being like, because even if you're not automating it, it's still wonderful to have all of those things in one place. So that you are not looking at multiple applications in order to see what you've done with your clients.
Brittany Herzberg 8:34
That is a really good point. And I cannot tell you the amount of times where I'm like bouncing between all those things, or where I have bounced between all those things. And I will get so distracted. And I meant to check on Jack's whatever and I'm over here looking at like this person's something else. And then I think of 10 different things I need to do. And my poor brain is like this one, go back to that one go back to this and go back to that. It is so freaking frustrating. I can't even tell you and you know, because we've lived this life and we don't want other people to have this happen. But if you're listening and you can relate these terms will save you from and I will say to you before I even jumped on the HoneyBook bandwagon because yes that's what I have and I like it and I think cool you have dubsado Right?
Colie James 9:15
I do but I also helped me set up honey but I'm not anti honey book I'm I think we're gonna talk about this but I mean, I recommend them almost equally now. And so while I use honey book to book my honey book clients dubsado is still my main CRM that I use for the majority of my clients.
Brittany Herzberg 9:33
Yea, Colie does NOT hate on HoneyBook. She loves Dubsado. She helps you with both she understands both like I forgot that that was such a hot button topic and you need to like tell people that so yes, blanket statement she likes both. But before I even jumped on that bandwagon,
I was pretty resistant to trusting that technology was going to have my back. And the reason is because I got burned by Google Calendar three different times, where it double or triple booked me with a massage client I only have two arms and two hands. Like I'm not so talented where I can use like feet and knees and like, I just wasn't there yet. So it was so heartbreaking to have these clients show up to me like thinking that I have my day all set. And then everybody's nervous system gets all fucked up, because we had this like, cluster. And here we are, and like, I have to apologize, and I have to pick somebody. So that really, really, really sucks, right? I did, I had to, like, if I'm breaking it down, it was so embarrassing, and so heartbreaking.
I was very resistant to trust technology, again, for anything. So if you were that person and you're listening, like it's okay, you can trust technology. I will say though, having people helped me set these things up, because you're gonna be helping me like, get all these new features in there. I had my friend Dahlia set up the first time. And it is so helpful to just be like, here's my stuff, please help you tell me what I can do. So I guess that might be a good place to go. Next is what does it look like when someone comes into your world? If they are like me, or it's like helped me with honey book? What does that look like?
Colie James 10:58
Well I'm just going to talk about one of my recent clients because she came to me, and she actually said, Okay, Callie, I heard you're amazing at dubsado. I'm thinking of switching to dubsado. What does it look like to work with you? And I explained to her? Well, the first thing that I want to know is like, what are you using right now? And do you even need to switch because I feel like CRMs are very like shiny object syndrome, you may want to automatically jump and get whatever your fellow business person is using, or your coach. I mean, that's a popular one. No, my coach uses dubsado. So I 100% need dubsado. And I'm like, but really, because your coach has a different business than you. So the first part is, can we just talk about your business? Can we talk about your client experience, how you interact with your clients, what steps you take from the moment that they inquire about your services until you're fully delivered? And you're asking for feedback? Like I want to know what that looks like for you so that we can make the best decision on which CRM works for you.
Now, the biggest like hot button topic that I have to ask people before we move forward, is do you have a team, because I do want to start this in conversation about honey book and dubsado by saying, neither one of them are fantastic. If you have a large team, I just want to get that out of the way, in terms of managing multiple email addresses, managing multiple calendars, they are not great. And so most of the time I'm working with like a solopreneur. Or you just have a VA. But if you legitimately have a team, and multiple people on your team need to schedule their own meetings. Yeah, most of the time, like a HoneyBook, or dubsado is not going to work for you in either case, and we have to, we have to explore other options, and I don't do those setups, but I'm happy to help you find somebody who does.
Brittany Herzberg 12:46
Please go exit door, right? You know, and go talk to this person, that is really good to know. So if you have a VA, if that is a consideration, are they then getting their own login? Or are they piggybacking on yours?
Colie James 12:57
It depends, okay, most of the time, I do recommend that your virtual assistant gets their own login, you can kind of gatekeeper some of the things in your business. Like for example, if you don't want them to have full access to your financials, but you want them to be able to schedule appointments, or deal with templates. Depending on what plan you're on. And whether or not it's Dubsado or HoneyBook, we can find the best fit for how to give your team members, their own logins. Because a lot of the times if your team member is just working behind the scenes, like it doesn't matter. They can log in as themselves, they can you know, do whatever. It's really only when you have team members that are actually client facing, and they have to do particular parts of your service with the clients. That's usually where we run into it. Okay, wait, we got to take a deep dive here. What are your people do? How do they interact with your clients? All that good jazz?
Brittany Herzberg 13:47
Yeah, a question that's coming to mind for me where I could see a business owner being like, Well, what about this or that pricing? What's the pricing difference between the two platforms?
Colie James 13:56
It's negligible. So the only thing that you have to consider is like that you're one discount. Because if you sign up from someone like Brittany or me who has an affiliate code for HoneyBook, you can usually get 50% off of your first year, but then you're paying full freight going after, which is about $400 a year at the time of this recording. For dubsado. It's the exact same, it's $400 a year or it's 350. Right now, at the time of recording, if you're signing up during one of the sales, and while I can get you 30% off of your dubsado for the first year, or you can get you know whatever the sale price is if you do it during one of their three annual sales after that you're paying full price which is $400. And so, like the price is not why you make a decision on choosing HoneyBook or choosing dubsado.
Brittany Herzberg 14:44
So are there certain times other I mean, it seems like teams isn't really a big deal like that's the same answer for both pricing savings are for both. Where does it get different between dubsado and HoneyBook? Are there any differences?
Colie James 14:55
At the beginning of 2024 Honey book made a like to lash by saying we're going to give you a new feature every day for 30 days, a brand new feature guys. And so they were very different at the beginning of 2023 versus 2024. Right now, most of the things that you want to do, you can do in both dubsado and HoneyBook. There is one exception. And I think that this is gonna get outdated pretty quickly. But you know, just let me put it out there anyways, right now, using a HoneyBook. Smart file, you are able to present an offer, get them to pick a date for their service, sign a contract and pay you money all in one swoop. Right now, that is not possible with Dubsado. If you choose to use a scheduler, there is no way to attach a contract to it immediately. You can send a contract after you can get a little fancy and add like terms and conditions at the bottom and have them check a box. But it isn't an actual contract. And so right now, that is one of the biggest differentiators between HoneyBook and Dubsado.
Brittany Herzberg 16:02
Oh, that's good to know. And I know before we hit record, you were talking about payment that that is different between the two as well. So what does that look like?
Colie James 16:10
So in terms of the fees, they're not so different, if someone is paying you with a credit card, you're going to be paying about 3% and transaction fees across the board, no matter if you are using PayPal square or stripe with dubsado. Or if you are using HoneyBook. Now, the biggest difference between HoneyBook and dubsado Is that HoneyBook is the payment processor. They are like your stripe, they process all of the payments on your behalf. And then they send you the money just like Stripe, or square wood.
Now, to me, I didn't really like that in the beginning, I was like I don't want my CRM to be my payment processor, like I've had stripe or square for years. And I want to use the payment processor that I have been using forever. But most people who choose HoneyBook are not bothered by that. But I do want to make sure that anybody going in because multiple other CRMs, it's you pick your processor from a list of you know options. And then you attach it to the CRM versus in HoneyBook. When you create your account, you are basically agreeing to let them process your payments. And then you tell them what bank account you want them to send your funds to, after they have processed the payments on your behalf.
Brittany Herzberg 17:25
Almost here like me, and I didn't really like the idea of HoneyBook processing my payments plus especially like, I think I've only had a process a few payments, and they were nominal amounts of money. And so it wasn't a big deal. But I do believe it took a little bit longer to come through versus me doing what I do, which in the long run helps me and helps me help my client as well, which is that I use QuickBooks, and I just grabbed the link and put it in that email wherever it needs to go. So we'll see if that stays that way after working with Colie because she knows how to be efficient and efficiency is like, love language for me.
Colie James 17:59
So that's the thing. I do get a lot of photographers who come to me who don't want to pay a processing fee, they're like, No, my clients just Venmo me. And I'm like, Okay, is it a business Venmo I mean, I'm not gonna go after you as hard if it's a business Venmo now versus another one. Because if it's a personal Venmo and Venmo finds out, you're using it for business, they can just come snatch all your money and not give it back. Like that is like my RMS level, I would never want that to happen to you.
But when it comes to like payment processing, I tell people the reason that I want you to process your payments inside your CRM, regardless which CRM you're doing is that then it allows you to take the next step without any booking friction. To me booking friction is anything that puts a pause in the process between when someone has said they're interested in booking your services, until they've actually paid you. I want there to be absolutely no pauses, no gaps, no point where you have to run to QuickBooks, create the invoice and then copy the link in there. I just want it to be one process where they look at your offers. They pick what they need, they sign your contract, and they pay you money. To me, that's the best of both worlds. That's when you get paid in less than five minutes. And that little touching on your phone. It is so amazing that dopamine hit that comes. When you sent out a proposal and five minutes later you've gotten paid. It's amazing.
Brittany Herzberg 19:20
Oh, I do love that. Okay, I'll have to rethink that. I'm still feeling some resistance but like maybe we were gonna talk about it written. It's all good. She's gonna get into on the stuff. Since we're on HoneyBook. Is there anything that you see that's underutilized in honey book by business owners?
Colie James 19:34
I mean, this is not just HoneyBook. This is Dubsado. Both of them offer you the opportunity that if someone has filled out like let's say your contact form, you don't have to just say thank you for doing that. You can actually send them to a link and I want everyone to have a thank you landing page on their website so that you can have people exploring more until you can contact them personally.
So like in your case, Brittany, if it's someone who is going to inquire about your SEO Services, or case studies, you might want to send them to a landing page that has a GIF where you're waving or has a video where you're like, thank you so much for inquiring, I will get back to you in 24 hours. And if you're interested in learning more about my case studies, here's a few recent ones that I did, just in case they didn't see those before they inquired about your services. It's just another way of keeping the excitement high, and the conversation going until you are actually able to review their inquiry and get back to them.
Brittany Herzberg 20:34
Personally, I really love that. And I'm excited to explore that with you because I went to your website, because I was instantly like Colie has a great example of this. I know what it was, we were looking at your footer, because my footer is like, boring. And it's like there. Right now it exists, like I have one. But if you go to Colie's website, which you should, it's going to be linked down below, it is so freakin fine. Even her footer is fun. And that is something that's a value of mine and something that I want people to feel happy and excited. All the stuff that you were just explaining, I want them to go to my website and feel that. And I think it does an ok job right now. But there's always little things that we can do. And especially with me having gotten more comfortable on video, I'm really excited to include things like that where it is maybe like a video or a GIF of me waving and like saying hi to people and putting links below. So I'm excited for this. I mean, it's another page.
Colie James 21:25
So another page of opportunity. Now, Brittany, I will say though, I do recommend to most of my clients that you hide that page from Google. So no, that's not going to help you with your SEO. But I do feel like it's just a great way. Because when people actually take the plunge and finish your contact form and inquire about your services, if there is dead silence, they don't know what to do, they're so excited to like, get it done, there's chances that they're going to run off and start looking at other people to contact to people are just in a mood to get their problem taken care of.
And so if they inquire with you, and you send them to a landing page where it gives them additional information, you send them an automated lead response email, which is possible in both HoneyBook ended up Sato and it can be customized for the offer that they specifically say they're interested in. So I mean, Brittany, you do SEO and case studies. And sometimes those are not the same, right? And so if we had a drop down, where it's like, you know, what kind of services can I help you with, and they choose SEO, we can actually send them an email that talks more about your SEO Services, versus your process of a case study or examples of case study. Like, we are going to be able to write an email that specifically speaks to what they have indicated they are most interested in hiring you for.
Brittany Herzberg 22:43
So if I'm listening, and I'm hearing you talk about all of these possibilities, to someone, it might feel like a little overwhelming and a little daunting. So like, how much of that do I need to already have in my brain when I call Colie?
Colie James 22:55
I mean, so the truth is, when I do a full setup, like I'm writing most of this, if you don't already have it done. Now, I do want to preface this, since I'm talking to Brittany and Brittany is an actual copywriter, I am not a copywriter! So I want to say that, like I will tell you what emails I think that you need throughout your client experience, I will listen to you when you tell me the important parts of your business and your processes, and what your clients need to know. And I will identify everything that I think we need to have, I will even give you templates or like take a stab at writing it. But then you really do have to read the email. And like add in, like if I've said something in a sentence that sounds more like me than you.
You want to just you know, tell me how to make it sound more like you and we can do that. But in general, you don't need to come to me with anything more than you telling me how your business works, or how you hope it would work. Because a lot of times when I'm working with someone in the very beginning, they're like, Oh, well, you know, I've really wanted to do this, but I've never had time. Okay, well, that's what we're gonna do for you. So let's talk about your dream list. Let's talk about if time was not a problem, what would you do with your clients?
And what does that magical client experience look like for you? And so I mean, that's why we start the process with like, a very, very long strategy call. I mean, I don't want to scare anybody. But for honey book, it's three hours and for dubsado It's four hours, that doesn't take that long for everyone. No, but like when I say I get up in your business, and I asked you about all your previous clients, and what you like about your processes and what you hate and what you wish you could do better. You are going to come out on the other end with like not only workflows and automations you're gonna come out with a business client experience that you are proud to share with your leads and your clients.
Brittany Herzberg 24:41
Which is just amazing! And by the way, I just want to let you know everything you just talked about, my friend, you are doing copywriting things! And—you're doing an amazing job! I mean, half my battle is just listening to what you are talking about into what your client is talking about and then organizing the information And, and even a step before that is taking what they're saying literally their words, their words, do not touch them, do not alter them. Take their words, you throw them in Google, and you do keyword research, and you look and see what the evidence is spitting back at you. So I'm just gonna like, stay on my soapbox for a minute, do your research.
After you listen to your people, and then make smart choices, and then you're organizing the information like, that is half the freaking battle. So yay, on you have like if you need Colie's help you got all the qualities help, but you are going to be the one doing the final review and making sure that it sounds like you and that you're really happy with that. Because if you're not, you need to say something so that you can amend it immediately. So that you can like Colie said, feel really, really solid, with what's going out and really excited for your clients to go through that experience versus the one that you have them going through right now. Which maybe it's not trash... but maybe it's not magical. And we want Disney-level-magic over here!
Colie James 25:54
Yes, we do. I mean, I will say the other part about like setting up your CRM systems, I just want to let everyone know, it is not going to be perfect, your systems are not something that is one and done. Like we're gonna take a really good stab at it, we're gonna get you what you feel like you need to go to the next level. But then in 6 months, you're gonna want to review your systems and see oh, well, you know, I found out from these last five clients, this is really why they wanted to hire me, okay, we take that we put it in some more your emails, we modify your proposal form, and then you go at it again. So no one has to be in a place, like you said earlier, Brittany, where you feel like you're coming to the table with everything done. Because that is not the purpose of getting your systems, you just have to start. And I guarantee you, the longer that you're in business, the more you're going to have to say about your systems and the better they are going to start working for you.
Brittany Herzberg 26:49
Yes! I'm just gonna like, kind of sort of be silent for a minute to let that land, you're gonna go back and review, there's two things that are coming to mind. One is that that's exactly what I'm doing. I think the first time that I had my honey book set up was I want to say was like fall of 2022. We're recording this early 2024. And I probably would have even done most you know, like in the fall or in the winter set, my schedule was just bananas. Because past Brittany didn't like past Brittany, all that much, obviously anyway.
So you are going to go back and you're going to review these things. And even once you get the systems in place and the automations in place, you're going to spot things for things, you're going to shift in your business, your language might change, your ideal client might change your offers might change. And that's okay. And that's totally normal. And I don't think that gets normalized enough in online business. The second thing I was thinking of is the first time I had all of those automations done, it was suggested that I put myself through the funnel. And I'm so glad I did. Because even with that I caught a few things because I was largely drafting a lot of the emails and I was like, Oh, wait, I did that. But that does not make any sense. So that I knew exactly where to go back in and update it. But yeah, you're nodding along. So you you agree.
Colie James 27:57
I do wholeheartedly. And I think that, you know, people think that it is such a huge investment, which it is, I mean, if you're going to hire someone to help you it is going to be a huge investment. But just because your offers changed down the road, it doesn't mean that all of the work that you've paid for is gone, I will tell you, there is nothing like getting your system set up for the first time. Because then when you do it the second time, it will always be less work, you will always have the knowledge of how they're working now and how you can make them better. And you are not starting from scratch each and every time. And so it gets easier every time you update your systems.
Brittany Herzberg 28:33
And I think that goes back to one of your original points, which is that the earlier you can get started with a CRM, the easier it is because you have all of that built up time to let's say you have four clients. And your ideal number is like 10 or something. Even though you feel like you have dead space, you have extra cushion. And you're like I can't really justify this, you totally can because you're getting yourself and you're getting your clients used to this process in this funnel and this ease of using these automation tools. And it just makes it easier for you to expand and grow faster. Okay, I almost hate asking this. But I am really curious, do you have a personal favorite between the two? Like if someone really, really forced you to choose would you choose Dubsado or HoneyBook?
Colie James 29:13
I'd still choose Dubsado—and here's why. At the time of this recording, HoneyBook only lets you have one automation live at a time. It was really funny. I was in the Dubsado group I would say about a year ago. And someone kept asking about multiple workflows. And the person was like, Oh my God, you can have multiple workflows going inside your project at the same time and I was thinking to myself, Yes, you idiot like why are you even asking this question? And then I realized that honey book only let you have one. And there's no way to like automatically turn one off and turn the next one on. It has to be done manually.
So personally, for me, that is a deal breaker for me. Like I need to be able to run the multiple workflows I figure out a way to help my clients use one automation in HoneyBook now, or if we really need to, we make sure that there's kind of like a pause, if you will, in your client experience, where you have a day or two, when the first automation has completed, you can go in and remove it, and then start the next one. But like you can't have that happening in the middle of the booking process, do you not I mean, because that creates booking friction. So I mean, at the end of the day, I love dubsado More than HoneyBook, because you can have multiple workflows going. I also love the fact that Dubsado has CodeBlocks, which means you do have way more flexibility to customize how each and every one of your forms looks. Now, I said it out loud. I made my point known.
But now I want to come back over to HoneyBook, because HoneyBook does let you design beautiful forms, your smart files, you know, you can add videos now. But there are limitations. For example, in HoneyBook, you can only upload a video from Vimeo loom YouTube, and like two more that I never use, and I never remember what they are. But in dubsado, you can upload a video from anywhere because you're just using an embed code. So like that's one of the things where dubsado Just has way more customization. But the truth is, most people don't need it.
And so at the end of the day, you come to me, you tell me your fangs I might legitimately tell you, it doesn't matter which one you choose, please go create a trial account for both. See how you like being in in the back end. And then we'll go from there. Or I mean, I have videos where I show people my back ends. And that allows them to see like what's possible. But really, at the end of the day, unless you have something that you absolutely need that one of them doesn't do. It is really about what you feel most comfortable in. Because you want your software to work for you. You want to feel comfortable going into your software in order to manage your business.
It doesn't matter if I tell you that Dubsado is better for you. If you go into Dubsado, and you hate being in there every single day. That's not the software for you. Let's see how you feel about HoneyBook. And if HoneyBook is the same, there are other software's that you can try. Besides those two, as a creative service provider, I love that both Dubsado and HoneyBook allow you to highlight your art as a photographer, like I can put photos and videos anywhere versus something like 17 Hats where you have absolutely no ability to dress anything up with any photos, any videos, any on branding font, no thank you like nothing in 17 hats, you get what you get.
Brittany Herzberg 32:37
You get the boring you get the basic, you get the dry, no thank you. That is not how we roll.
Colie James 32:41
But for some businesses that works and like when people come to me, I'm the first person to admit the majority of the people that I work with are photographers. And if they're not photographers, they are website designers. They are brand designers. They like their visuals! And so I feel like if you are a visual artist, you need a CRM that allows you to showcase that when you are asking your clients to pay you thousands of dollars.
Brittany Herzberg 33:09
I like that I think that's a good place to end. So where can people find you and what things might you have that you want to direct them to?
Colie James 33:16
Okay so I'm on Instagram most of the time at Colie James, I'm also on my podcast. If you're listening to this podcast, you probably love podcasts. So put Business-First Creatives on your playlist. I am sure that Brittany is going to link her amazing guest episode in the show notes. And then the last thing that I'm going to say is Brittany asked me a lot of questions about how I can help you set up your systems. But the truth is I have things for DIYers and people who want done for you. So just come visit me on ColieJames.com. And you can see my template shop, my courses. I have one for Dubsado and one for HoneyBook. And then of course my done for you if you're one of those people that's like I don't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. Can I just tell you all about my business and have you set it up? I got you girl!
Brittany Herzberg 34:03
Yes, you can! And there's the thing that you're working on. Right that should be out by the time this is out...
Colie James 34:08
I know, by the time this airs, there will probably be a new freebie of Dubsado versus HoneyBook because the reason that we did this episode guys, is a lot of people asked me about the differences between Dubsado and HoneyBook. And because in some cases it's a very visual thing. I am working on a new [blog psot] so that you can actually see a checklist of where they are the same and where they are different.
Brittany Herzberg 34:35
I love it! Thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. I was so excited for this episode. I just love hanging out with you!
Colie James 34:41
I know I mean next time we'll talk about something a little more exciting than Dubsado versus HoneyBook. You never know!
Brittany Herzberg 34:46
I mean, I think we still made it spicy and fun. We'll find out let us know how we did people. Okay. Thanks for hanging out and we will catch you next time!
That was really something wasn't it? What that really least again and guide you toward being the answer to even more Google questions. Thanks so much for joining me this episode. You are the reason this show exists and that it keeps growing. You know, thanks to all those follows and reviews. If you know someone who could benefit from what we've shared, send it to them. We don't do shy around here. If you thought of clarifying or follow up questions while listening, you know what to do. Say hi on Instagram, check the show notes for all the things that were mentioned and I'll talk to you soon friend