Jordan Gill: Experimentation as an Entrepreneur
It may surprise you to learn that experimenting out loud can be supportive to entrepreneurs of the introverted variety as well as anyone battling a chronic illness.
Entrepreneurship is a wild ride! One shock you get time & time again are the personal things that greatly impact your business. Could include, but not limited to: fear of judgement, chronic illness, & perfectionism.
Those are just a few of the things Jordan Gill shared about on today’s episode. The throughline? Experimenting out loud as an entrepreneur. Opening yourself up to experimentation can be so supportive in each of the above scenarios—it can help you move past the fear of judgement, allow you to come up with creative solutions to be a business owner and a human experiencing a chronic illness, & so much more.
In this conversation, you’ll learn the biggest benefit to bringing play into your business, how to make the most of trends, & how Jordan is managing in-person speaking events with a chronic disease. Let’s dive in!
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
Why experimentation is important in entrepreneurship
When & why Jordan started experimenting out loud with her business
The biggest benefit to bringing play into entrepreneurship
How many “new” offers Jordan has created in the last few years
What you can learn when you experiment as an entrepreneur
How to make the most of trends
What Jordan’s learned from her Human Design
How experimenting can actually help perfectionists
How experimentation supports you moving past the fear of judgement
What it’s like being an entrepreneur with a chronic illness
How Jordan is managing in-person speaking events with a chronic illness
Jordan’s predictions for where online business is heading in 2025 & 2026
Meet: Jordan Gill
Jordan Gill is a multi- 7-Figure Business Strategist whose mission is for high-achieving business owners to prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue! Her podcast, Systems Saved Me®, goes behind the success of businesses to spotlight the invisible systems you've never seen or heard of. When she’s not spreading the gospel of systematic success, she’s working on one of her thousand-piece jigsaw puzzles or traveling the world with her husband and bonus son.
Mentioned Resources:
The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control (book)
Related Episodes:
Networking as an Introverted Entrepreneur w/ Angela Tan
Human Design in Marketing w/ Rachael Weaver
Repurpose Emails as SEO-friendly Blogs w/ Eman Ismail
Other Podcasts:
Jordan on Mistakes that Made Me Podcast w/ Eman Ismail
5 Missed Opportunities with Relationship Marketing (Brittany on the Systems Saved Me® Podcast)
Connect w/ Jordan:
Connect w/ Brittany:
This episode of The Basic B podcast is brought to you in partnership w/ Leah Bryant Co.! Help me reach more service providers like you by following the show & leaving a rating or review on Apple & Spotify!
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Basic B podcast follows
Welcome back to the Basic Bee podcast. I am so happy to be here with you, to have a friend here with us. And we're going to be talking about a whole bunch of different things. So I don't even have like a very clear focus for you. We're just going to see what the heck unfolds here. But I've got Jordan Gill here and let me just like introduce you to her in case you don't know who Jordan Gill is, which means you've probably been living under a rock and if you have, welcome, here's fresh air. Like, it's nice to have you here.
Brittany Herzberg: Jordan Gill is a multi seven figure business strategist whose mission is for high achieving business owners to prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue. Her podcast system, Save Me goes beyond the success of businesses to spotlight the invisible systems you've never seen or heard of. When she's not spreading the gospel of systematic success, she's working on one of her thousand piece jigsaw puzzles or traveling the world with her husband and bonus son, Jordan. I'm so happy to have you here.
Jordan Gill: Oh my gosh. This is like, I don't know. We booked this so long ago and it's always been like, I'm so excited for that day that's gonna come soon.
Brittany Herzberg: It'll be here eventually. Yeah, I was looking. I think we booked this like four months ago because I just.
Jordan Gill: Okay.
Brittany Herzberg: So to the point of your bio. Yeah, I needed to take a break. I had like shoved a lot on.
Jordan Gill: My calendar and we have to do that sometimes. So I'm glad that you took that break. I was there to ride out the break with you and now we're here. We get to have a fun conversation. So I'm all good for it.
Brittany Herzberg: And before either of us forget to mention, I was over on Jordan's podcast where we were talking about, I think it was like missed opportunities for networking and collaborations.
Jordan Gill: Totally. Yeah. So that was a good show. I'll give you the link and whatnot for people to listen. Cause it was really, really good. And Brittany and I both like share like such a respect around collaboration and how you go about connecting with people and just having genuine relationships and friendships online. So it was a really good episode. Definitely wanted to listen.
Brittany Herzberg: Thanks. I had a lot of fun and I don't know, I was talking about this this weekend with somebody and I was like, I feel like I'm one of those weirdos that actually does go back and listen to my own conversations because I. Well, It's a little bit of, like, practicing for me. Like, is there anything I can tighten up on or anything I felt like an idiot need to warn people about or just like, how could I summarize the conversation for anyone I want to share it with? So it's a lot of fun to go back and listen. And I love just having these conversational episodes with people I know.
Jordan Gill: I think the only one I went back to listen to was one that I was super vulnerable with. So that one, like, scared me because I wasn't super raw, but it felt raw in the moment as of sharing. So I was like, okay, let me, like, listen and sound completely unhinged. And it was actually okay. But that was the only one.
Brittany Herzberg: That's so funny. Was that the one with them on? Yeah, yeah, no, that was a really good one. I'll link that one because that was a really good conversation that the two of you had. She's on the podcast too.
Jordan Gill: Oh, my gosh. She's an amazing interviewer. I'm just like, I've done 400 episodes on mine, but, like, you literally are thousands times better than I am.
Brittany Herzberg: You're good though. I love both of your shows. So we are not going to, like, put one over the other.
Jordan Gill: That's true. There's room for everybody.
Brittany Herzberg: There is. So. Okay, now for the point of why we're even here. Well, one of. I know that people comment on, like, me and different offers that I share and how my business has shifted over the years, but you're someone else that I see in this space who's like, I don't know, the best way to phrase it feels like experimenting out loud. Yeah. So, like, take us through that. What that's been like, what it's felt like.
Jordan Gill: Totally. So I wasn't always experimenting out loud. You know, my business kind of has chunks. So, like, the first four years of my business was when I was offering VIPAs myself. And that was that era. And then there was the era of, okay, now I'm teaching VIP days to the masses. And that was about a three year period. And then the last two ish years have been experimenting out loud and just being like, you know what, I am just gonna play see what works. And I think that that probably would be really scary for a lot of people because one, it feels like, oh my gosh, people are gonna know I'm failing. Which half the time people don't even know when I fail because, you know, if one or two people purchase something, and I meant for it to be for More like I just either refund them the money and move on with my life, or I just do it for the two people, and then we also move on with our lives. So you think that people are paying so close attention to you and that they're gonna, like, find all these little cracks and whatever else, but I found that more times than not. And it'll be interesting to hear what. What you think too, or what your experience has been. But people have actually been very appreciative of me doing it versus, like, okay, Jordan is unhinged. Why is she launching all these things? Somebody check on her. Because this is like, not how you do business or like, she just seems like she's jumping from this to that to this to that. And I will say that my experiments are in a general area. I'm not necessarily, like, going way left field with the offers that I'm putting out there. So that I think also helps. It's not like if I were to all of a sudden become a branding strategist, then everyone should be worried because that is not my expertise and branding actually freaks me out. So it's been cool because it's allowed me to actually get really, really good at offer creation, launching, pricing, copywriting, all of those things that if you're only launching once or twice a year, or if you're only putting one or two offers out there, or if you've had the same offer for a few years, which was my done a day season, yeah, you can get good at some things, but I found that the experimentation, like, I'm getting really good at some things that I was okay at for the majority of my business. And that has been what's really cool for me is, like, now I can understand the mechanics of online business a lot better because I've literally done it so many times, I can't even tell you how many offers I've created. I'm assuming it's in the 50s or 60s, like, no lie.
Brittany Herzberg: Wow.
Jordan Gill: And because I remember I said it was in the 30s, like before done in a day, and so definitely have launched probably 20, 30 things since done in a day. So, yeah, I've actually really enjoyed it because it allows you to get those skills up to then have a better understanding of your business, of the businesses you're supporting and helping. That's what I found. So what have you found with, like, experimenting?
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, it's been interesting because for me, it started because I have such this, like, perfectionist streak and I was like a straight A kid and all this stuff. And So I was like, I have to stop doing this. Like, it's so much pressure. I'm being so mean to myself when things fail.
Jordan Gill: Yes.
Brittany Herzberg: And then I just, like, spiral from there. So it's pretty awful. And you nodding your head. So I feel like you could probably relate.
Jordan Gill: I see you.
Brittany Herzberg: I see you. We're, like, right here. It started off as, like, a challenge slash invitation to just, like, knock it off. And it really did help me to just, like, okay, we're just gonna, like, see what sticks. And one thing I'm really good at, and you're good at this too, is noticing what's kind of trending a little bit, what conversations are happening. Just instead of abc, like people always say, like, ABC always be closing. I'm always listening.
Jordan Gill: Yeah.
Brittany Herzberg: To see, like, what are the comments? What are the thread topics? What are the podcasts that are coming out? And there are some things that I don't, like, really get into, like AI, but other things are my jam. And so when it's my jam, I'm like, oh, how could I help someone with this thing? And then I can create, like, a workshop or a download or a thing. So I'm just, like, always just poking around and seeing what people are talking about. And it has, like you said, it's really helped me to be clear on messaging, clear on how I'm helping people, who this is for. And I mean, my last workshop was way bigger than anything else I've ever sold. So I'm like, oh, this is kind of cool. Like, it really works.
Jordan Gill: It's always fun when that happens.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, it is really fun. Do you know much about your human design? I know I've asked you this before.
Jordan Gill: Yeah, I'm a projector.
Brittany Herzberg: What are the numbers? I'm really quizzing you, Jordan, because I know I'm three, five. What are your. Two.
Jordan Gill: Okay. Yeah, so four, six is. I know one of them is like, I'm living my life in, like, three sections. So the first section was like, whatever, 0 to 30. And then I'm in my second section. Cause I'm 34. 30 to 50ish, and then 50 beyond. So, like, I'm basically in the. Like, I'm stacking for the greatness that is 50 and over, I guess. But I don't remember what the other number means. I need to go back and, like, revisit that. But it's interesting because as a projector, I'm supposed to wait for the invitation. But what I have noticed is interesting because I was like, this is not making any Sense because a lot of times I'm creating things for myself that then I'm like, hey, do you guys want this? And so it feels like a backwards invitation because I'm technically inviting them into something I've created for myself. But then it's almost like, again, I think so differently and not in like a oh my gosh, I'm like some savant or something, but just like, I think very differently. I get that comment a lot when I'm strategizing with people or when I just put things out there. They're like, I literally would never have, like, thought of this. And like, I just love your brain. And it's so interesting to me. And so it's hard to wait for invitations when people don't even comprehend what you could possibly come up with. So I've realized I have to do the asking. And it's not even. I don't see it as asking for the invitation. I see it as like validating that they want the invitation to come into my world and come into like, the stuff that I'm doing. And that has been really cool. And I 100% agree about the perfectionism and also the like, people judgment, right? It's like, oh gosh, I'm sure, like someone's like copying this link and like bashing me in a voxer channel or something, which I'm sure is true. And it's like, I have to get over that. Like, that is something that I actually am like, more okay with now than I ever have been. And just knowing that like, my husband loves me, my bonus son loves me, like, I have a life that I love and enjoy and like, it's real versus, like, it's fine if someone's like, oh, she has a pimple on this video and we should make fun of her because, like, I actually don't care. And that's what I see. A lot of people coming into the space struggle with so much. I was talking to my sister in law and she's like, I don't understand how you go on these videos with no makeup on because I think I would have like a panic attack. Like, what if people say stuff about you? And I'm like, they probably do. I anticipate that people are gonna have something to say about my hair or my pimple or my clothes choice or whatever else. And like, it doesn't matter. I'm comfortable with myself enough to where I'm just like, you know what if I'm happy coming on this video sharing the knowledge which is the whole Point of it, not what I look like, sharing the knowledge, then I'm doing what I enjoy and what is most valuable to the people. Like, they don't need me to put makeup on in order to understand that this automation is going to help them save five hours a week. Like, let's be honest, you know.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah.
Jordan Gill: With perfectionism. And the people aspect as well are just like, that was something, too. With experimenting out loud. That maybe was something that made you nervous or something that maybe held you back from doing it before you did it.
Brittany Herzberg: Oh, totally. And so you were talking about, like, having offers that make sense. They're, like, within the same industry, kind of in the same lane. I jumped from massage therapy over to SEO, because that makes a lot of sense, Right. Well, if there's a global pandemic, it does. I started my Instagram handle channel profile, whatever we want to call it, was all entirely dedicated to massage. And then I started to shift over into SEO copywriting. And at one point, I call it a come to Jesus moment where I was like, brittany, okay, if you keep talking to both of these people, everyone's going to stay confused. I have to pick one. My massage practice is doing great because at the time, I wanted to split my time. Now I'm entirely doing this. And so I was like, all right, we're just going to change this profile entirely over to SEO, copywriting and strategy. And it felt like you were saying, like, all the people are watching and they're going to, like, judge you and they're going to come out with, like, pitchforks and, like, I don't know what I thought they were going to do with the pitchforks, but it's literally like no one cared. I mean, eventually they were like, oh, this is cool. And this is what you're doing. And me changing my Instagram profile is how I've gotten so many collaborations and clients and opportunities and all of these things and met some really cool people, including you. So it's like, just do the thing. It's not a big deal. But I will say, also in full disclosure, I totally have a pimple today. And I put concealer on, but that's it. That's, like, the only makeup I do.
Jordan Gill: Exactly.
Brittany Herzberg: It doesn't matter. Yeah.
Jordan Gill: Right. We're here to share the value. And if someone is wrapped up and, well, I'm not going to listen to her because she doesn't wear makeup on a video, that's fine. I literally am, like, so cool with that. Go be great.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah.
Jordan Gill: And I get it, because it can sometimes Feel like high school or whatever else. My bonus son is about to go into middle school and my husband and I were just having a panic attack earlier about this because it's just like I hated middle school. It was not great. And so because it is such a judgment zone, you want to talk about, like, the most critical time for a lot of people was middle school because so much is changing and you're so confused. There's hormones everywhere. And it's like the Internet or online space can feel like that because you get a bad comment on a video or someone says something to you in a dm, or you're just showing up as yourself and people don't like it. You can definitely go down a deep situation if you don't get yourself right before that. Because people on the Internet are very confident, more confident than they are in person. So they're just gonna be clicky, clacky keyboard warriors and attack at any time. And I'm grateful that I don't have that as much. I think I'm a little bit intimidating to people, which works in my favor in this way. But I think that if people could just understand what is the point of me having my business of serving clients, of offering value, if somebody has something to say about something outside of that, then like, it's okay. Like, because again, there are people I don't like and there's people I'm sure you don't like and they're moving on with their life. First of all, they probably don't even know that I don't like them and that's fine. Like again, I don't have an issue with that. So if we know there's some people we like, some people we don't. Other people also have that or I'm sure that I'm the villain in some people's stories, right? Iman's podcast, you know, me having to let go of my team, I'm sure that I am the villain in some of my team members stories. And that was something that really hit me hard and was 100% the hardest part of that entire season of my life was just I cared so deeply for them and also at that point I couldn't hold on. So that sucks. That sucks to know that I could be a villain in their life journey. And at the same time, it still is the decision I would make today based on the information that I had. But it's hard.
Brittany Herzberg: It's very hard. And yeah, even you saying that, I'm remembering, like, there's one very big thing that's happened in the last number of years. Are we now? Like, it's been hard where, like, my number one thing that I don't want to do is feel like I've disappointed someone. And it's been thing after thing after thing. But there was one big thing, and I could see it coming, and I'm like, it's when you can watch the train wreck and you know it has to happen anyway.
Jordan Gill: Yes.
Brittany Herzberg: And it's just like, all right, choo, choo. It's going to keep on coming. But it does. It sucks. And it's like, all right, like, as long as I know I'm a good person, I'm doing things with, like, the best of intentions. I'm handling this as kindly and with as much love as I possibly can. That's all I can do. And then how someone else interprets it is just gonna be how someone else interprets it.
Jordan Gill: Yeah, exactly. So look at us being healthy beings in the world.
Brittany Herzberg: Okay? So I know that not only do we have this whole, like, collaboration and experimenting out loud in common, we also have you to a much bigger degree than me, but, like, hearing you share your story has been very much, like, validating of, like, we've all got something going on, like, silently behind the scenes. So I know you've got, like, chronic illnesses and you're also an entrepreneur. So, like, yeah, tell us about that balancing act.
Jordan Gill: Yes, definitely. And again, with chronic illness, for those who maybe don't necessarily know what that is or aren't experiencing themselves, it's essentially usually autoimmune disorders or things of that nature that are again, basically creating little mini attacks in your body of pain or different symptoms in a very consistent basis. So my three chronic illnesses are celiac disease, chronic fatigue, and hypothyroidism, which means that my thyroid is underactive, meaning that it just, like, doesn't do much. It's a fun cocktail of chronic illnesses, and it affects, you know, what I eat. So every meal, I have to be super diligent about what I'm eating for. You know, just even energetically. Like, this year, I have cut the majority of calls. Like, I basically have two or three days a month that I have calls, this being one of them. Yes, you made the cut. And the rest of it, I don't have calls. I don't have anything that I need to show up for because I was, I don't wanna say in denial, but I didn't really recognize how much calls affected my energy until now. I'm like, every day I'M able to wake up and adjust my calendar to that day's energy, which is great and which has really been refreshing for me. So I always get feedback that people are saying, you move so fast. And, like, I don't feel like I move that fast and everything's relative. But I have expectations of myself and speed and ambition, and I don't hit my goals a lot of time, especially when my chronic illness is flaring. And that can be really frustrating. And at the same time, I have to give myself patience. Also realize that I'm not running like an urgent care. I'm building systems for people like, it's not life or death. Right. Thank goodness. So I am able to have that flexibility and ask for grace when I need it. And that also can feel weird and not fun. But I'm pretty upfront about how I operate. And so for the most part, if people don't like that, then they don't come to me. I've been lucky in that sense. It's something that I know that is something that affects a lot of people every day. And the beautiful thing about online businesses and entrepreneurship is you can create the environment in which you need to succeed and in which you need to be great. And that can look a lot of different ways. Like, I know how my business is run probably isn't how most people run their businesses because of XYZ reasons. And I can either make myself feel bad about that or I can say, we're all different anyway. So it's supposed to look the way it needs to look. For me, it's one of those things that can be discouraging sometimes because it feels like, dang, like, I could be moving faster, I could be doing more and giving myself that grace and that pause and the acknowledgement of what I have accomplished up until this point and just knowing that it's something that I have to honor. Otherwise I will be in some health troubles. Right. And just not being able to work at all. So I have to be grateful for the few hours that I have and move forward with that. So it's really sometimes a mental game more than anything.
Brittany Herzberg: Oh, totally. So I've dealt with migraines since I was seven, but I am very fortunate that, like, it feels like I finally found, like, the right cocktail that works for me. So I can, like, manage it a little bit. But I mean, just even as you were talking, like, the being gracious with yourself, and I'm much better. Better at that with other people, but, like, turning that inward, it's like, why Is that the most challenging thing on the planet? Just about is like treating yourself how you would treat a friend. And so it's almost like just plaster that on my forehead and then I'll be better. But it's a lot easier, I will say, to manage that, to navigate that, having an online business versus having the massage practice. Because that used to absolutely crush me when I would wake up with migraine and you could just tell it wasn't going to go away. So I'm like, well, I've got to message these people and like, not only am I dealing with the pain feeling awful, I have to now, like, text them or call them and give them the heads up and then spend the rest of the day feeling bad about it.
Jordan Gill: It's one of those things that too, I've recognized even when I'm like, speaking on stages and stuff like that. Like this year I have like eight speaking engagements. And so, like, that's wild. And we're cutting it off because it's a lot of travel and I need to. Again, I pretty much am limiting myself to two trips a month. And so some months I do have both of those and some I don't. But it's. You have to be just so acutely aware when you have chronic illness, you're having to notice those little things. Like, again, calls when you take your calls, how long you're working per day or what triggers your migraines. What triggers. For me, again, I have a lot of food stuff. So what will trigger my gut issues? It's so much mental space to manage. But that's why my business is the same system saved me, is because literally there's so much that I would not be able to do if my systems weren't doing it for me. I don't even know what would be happening in my business if it was all dependent on me. That's frightening to think of. So I'm very grateful for the skill set that I have to be able to build those things in. And, you know, I'm not perfect by any means, but I. I try my best and at least try to be communicative. That's always my thing is like, if I'm really struggling with something, even if I just have to shoot a quick email and say, hey, like, today's not the day. I'll come back to you tomorrow. At least trying to do that as much as possible.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, totally. And I will say, I think I've told you this, like, offline before, but just being able to watch you and witness what you've been doing. It's allowed me to give myself permission to, like, oh, it's okay. If that doesn't work for me, I have this other alternative thing I can try. So, like, for everyone who's ever talked to me on Voxer or Telegram or even Instagram in lieu of a sales call or a consultation call or whatever, we have Jordan to thank for that. Because I was like, this is brilliant. Please let me do it. Because calls are exhausting for me. Same thing. I mean, that's why I basically took November, December off, is because I was like, I can't. So thank you for that and thank you for everybody else who's watched that, witnessed that.
Jordan Gill: I love a good Voxer chat. I'm like, take it to the box. Like, don't send me a calling.
Brittany Herzberg: No, don't. All right. I know we're just about the end of time here, so I would love to know, just like, do you see any, like, trends or do you have any predictions for where the online business industry is, like, headed or anything you're noticing?
Jordan Gill: Gosh, yes. Like you said earlier, we are very observant. We are very much listening to everything, reading everything, and I'm quite a sponge. So I actually think I've been in the online industry as an entrepreneur since 2016, but I was in the online industry space for two years before that as a W2 employee. So I've literally been in this space since 2014. It's basically my entire career post college, minus a year. And so last year, I did recognize it was hard for people because a lot of people went into this cycle of, like, burn it all down and start something new. Nothing is wrong with that. Literally zero judgment there because I've burned it down and started anew as well. Mine just was a little earlier than everybody else's. So what I think that actually did was kind of shake out the people who were only interested in business when it was easy is the best way to put it. And so business is always, I don't wanna say the word hard, because then it makes it sound like everything is a drain. Cause it's not. But business is not just following the Elabic road and frolicking into the Emerald City. There's going to be obstacles along the way, one of them being things you cannot control, like what is going on in the world, in the us, in your communities, in your home. You know, having to navigate. Grief for me was a big one in the last six months, losing two grandparents. And that was very new for me. And so all of those things compiled, what I'm noticing is that there are people who are holding on for dear life to how things have always been. And then there's people who are more comfortable with trying new things. And I don't even mean just AI, I just mean play around again, like experimenting out loud sort of thing. And something I'm noticing in my mentorship conversations and just in my conversations in general are people are. They haven't actually built audiences for themselves. And I don't mean thousands, but just consistently bringing in new people to your world. I would say that's the number one thing that I've seen a lot of people struggle in the last year with. So I think this year, predictions wise, there's gonna be a lot of people who are going to be trying to build their audiences. Fortunately, it's gonna be a little more expensive than it ever has been from a time and money perspective. But this year a lot of people are gonna be in the building phase. And also there's going to be a need for innovation from everybody. Again, I'm not just speaking to AI because that's literally one part of it and whatever else it's like, okay, like there's other stuff you can do to innovate. Right. And I think that there's going to be some things and I don't know what, but just some things that are going to appear and be of like super great value for the first movers of it. Because I remember in 2014, courses had existed probably since 2009. Ish. 2014 was pretty quiet, so to speak, from an always perspective. So when I came into 2014, it really was that gold rush of like 2014, 2015, 2016. Okay, you know, and then 2020, I think that there's gonna be another gold rush in some way, shape or form from the online business space. But it may not be, I don't wanna say relevant to online space. It may be relevant to us taking our skills as online business owners to like the world or to people like just regular folk. Cause I'm seeing that a lot with people who are really savvy with digital marketing and have focus on that audience for a long time, but now they can focus on a new audience and speed up the process of success. So that's something that I'm eyeing and seeing other people doing and I think is going to be a big thing.
Brittany Herzberg: That's very intriguing. I haven't heard anybody say that yet. I'm so stoked. I'm like, my brain, my wheels are turning and like, smoke is coming out of my ears. Like, that's very exciting.
Jordan Gill: Yeah, I think it's going to be really cool and I'm here for it. Like, I love innovation, so I'm like, hey, go for it, you know?
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, no, I think it's going to be a very interesting year. I'm curious to see how it all plays out. I kind of sort of felt hopeful last year, and then, like, last year was a dumpster fire on steroids. So 2025, just. It definitely has a different feel for it, at least for me, so. And I'm hearing that from other people, too. I'm like, okay, cool. Maybe we're like going up now.
Jordan Gill: Yes, exactly. We're done with that valley. Let's have a peek.
Brittany Herzberg: So done with the valley. Couldn't have said it better myself. All right. Where can people find you if they haven't already? Which again, you know, looking at you.
Jordan Gill: People just virtually looking at you. So Instagram is my jam. Istems, plural saved me. And then I do have my podcast, so obviously you like to listen podcasts. That's systemssaved me as well. And then my website is probably the most up to date place. Cause again, I'm up to a lot of shenanigans. So between my website or my Instagram, you're gonna know what's going on in some way, shape or form.
Brittany Herzberg: I love that. Well, thank you so much for joining me, for waiting to have this call and then just for being so open, as per usual.
Jordan Gill: Yeah, it was so great. Thanks for having me, Brittany. And thanks for listening, y'all.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, we'll catch you next time.
