Jess Brooks’ Case Study Training Experience as a Copywriter
DFY Case Study Copywriting is such a transferrable deliverable! Take it from Jess, a UX + Conversion Copywriter…
UX & Conversion Copywriter Jess Brooks is the reason we’re all here. Early one November morning in 2022 I got a message from Jess.
“I’m about to hop on this interview for a copywriting project & I want to know—what questions should I ask? By the way… ever thought of creating a training to show other business owners how to do what you do & write case studies?”
The rest is history. (And is called The Case Study Training Program.) If you’re curious about offering DFY case studies as a copywriter—press play now to hear about it from Jess!
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
How Jess & Brittany met
Why are case studies the ultimate show not tell
Why Jess wanted a case study copywriting training
Which case study training resource is Jess’ favorite
How Jess was able to write a case study in less than a week 🤯
Jess’ take on how easy it is to weave in keywords & an SEO strategy
How to use case studies on sales pages (she gives 2 actionable examples!)
Join The Case Study Training (doors close 4/29)!
Related Episodes:
Mindi's episode
Ashleigh's episode
Dallas' episode
Everything You Need to Know About the Training
Connect w/ Jess:
Connect w/ Brittany:
This episode of The Basic B podcast is brought to you in partnership w/ Leah Bryant Co.! Help me reach more service providers like you by following the show & leaving a rating or review on Apple & Spotify!
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Basic B podcast follows
Welcome to the Basic Bee Podcast, a show for the wannabe SEO savvy service providers among us, for the coaches and consultants who dream of becoming known for their storytelling skills, not to mention the solopreneurs who straight up need to master all things social proof to increase sales. After a little reluctantly fully committing to this online world of business, I quickly realized I needed to get people to come to me. I needed to tell them I was here and how I could support them. I dove headfirst into social proof.
which led me to SEO, which led me to storytelling. And now it gives me great joy to share what I've learned with other business owners so they skip the hard stuff and ease straight into sales. This podcast gives you expert insights, actionable takeaways, and casual convos with some of the online world's best and brightest experts and strategists. I think that's enough of an intro, so here we go.
Welcome back to the Basic Bee Podcast. And for all of my copywriters who've been watching this whole case study conversation go down, this episode is for you. Because this episode is with my friend Jess Brooks, who's a copywriter, who is the entire reason that this case study training exists. I got a message from her, which you're going to hear about, and then the entire training just developed from there. So let's get into it. Hey, Jess. I'm excited to talk with you today. Thanks for having me, Brittany.
You have gone through the case study training program and use that to help you create case studies as a deliverable for other clients. I haven't asked you this, though. I'm just jumping into the questions. Have you done any case studies for yourself yet? It's great. You asked me this because I just bombarded a previous client for a new offer. I'd done her website and I was like, I need to do a case study on this because it just felt like it was such a great project.
We'd pivoted from a sales page to a full -on website. And it was so exciting that I said, you know what? I have Brittany's course, and I can do this really fast. I need this. So I sent her all your questions. We did it on Voxer. So she responded at her own leisure. And I just used all your questions from the course. And it was amazing. So it is in progress. So thanks for asking. Oh my gosh. You're welcome. I had no idea. That's amazing. I'm excited about that. I'm excited for you. There's a thread I want to pull on, of course, because we're both copywriters.
Brittany Herzberg (02:27.79) So will you tell us a little bit about, because I have been calling you a conversion copywriter and I'm not even sure that that's accurate. That is accurate. I'm a conversion copywriter and a UX with UX training. So that's like the user experience training, which is why I was able to see clearly I needed to move that from a sales page to a website because of the buyer's experience. Yeah, so I write strategic sales pages for online entrepreneurs. I love that. So you and I met inside a networking group.
I don't remember if it was one of the larger ones I was in or one of the smaller ones I was in and I don't remember how much contact you and I actually had in that room. But what I do remember is that shortly after we were in that room, that virtual room, you reached out because you wanted to interview me to help you write a sales page, which is why I've been in my brain and like she's a conversion copywriter, like she writes sales pages. And then the next thing I know,
You were sending me a message. It was like early in the morning one morning on Instagram. You were like, hey, I'm about to hop in to, I say this on the sales page for the case study training program, but literally you were voicememowing me and you're like, I'm going into this interview. I think this could be a case study. What questions do I need to ask? Which was like amazing. That was our like timeline. Is there anything you remember that I don't remember about like meeting and interacting?
Well, I just remember that everybody knew you. They kept saying your name. You got to meet Brittany. And then I had you in the chats and in a meeting somewhere. And I was like, this is Brittany. So yeah. Yeah. And you were an excellent interviewer. I loved talking with you. And I think we probably could have kept on talking. That's how all of our conversations go. So let's go back to that moment because you truly were the one that sparked the idea.
Take me to the moment when you messaged me on Instagram. You were heading into that client interview. What even inspired you to reach out? OK, so I'm pretty sure I was eating cabbage at the time. You were. Because I always would message you when I was eating coleslaw. But I had a client, and that was a large project, and it was very exciting. But I had been taking so many courses, and I was taking a sales page course at the time.
Jess Brooks (04:44.078) And I was just feeling overwhelmed with all the stuff that I was learning and having to implement. And I knew that this would be an amazing case study for the client that I was going into an interview with. And I was like, if only I had like just a play by play, like I just want somebody to tell me what to do and I can do it. I don't want to have to think about it. I just want to be able to crank this out. I like hearing somebody's workflow.
And I like seeing behind the scenes of how they do something so that then I can create my own process. That's why I reached out to you. I was like, I don't have the brain space to figure this out. Like if Brittany had a step -by -step process that I could follow, I could just do this and it would be amazing and I could do it. I just don't have the brain capacity to figure out a workflow for myself and add it on to all the control and things that I was learning. So, and trying to like create my own process at the same time. So,
That's why I reached out to you. I said, I think, like you, everyone's talking about your amazing case studies, Brittany. Like, I think that you could offer this to people to show your streamlined process. I know that you'd spent a lot of time developing, which is why it's like, okay, now you can sell it because you have refined the process. And there's so many of us that don't have to go through that awkward middle stage. I just want to mention that I worked in news. I worked as a journalist. Like, I'm a trained journalist.
I've interviewed so many scary people. Like it wasn't that I didn't know how to write a profile piece. It was just that I wanted the process step by step. Like I wanted to be able to pay for the process. It wasn't the outcome. I just wanted to be able to put it, because I had how to write a sales page, all my steps. I'd been documenting my workflow.
And again, I did not have the capacity to then go through and figure out how to do a case study. And gathering testimonials is so close to a case study. I mean, you're in that 15 minute interview. So why not just massage it a little bit further, dig a little deeper, ask a few more Brittany's Dean's questions, and pull a little bit more of the story out, and then be able to put that together quickly into a case study. There's so many places that my brain can go.
Brittany Herzberg (07:03.214) So when you said that you just wanted to pay for the process, like you had the skills, you could have taken the time to go and investigate, but it sounds like you were really just like bogged down by the other learnings and trainings that you were doing. And I even remember you saying that. You were like, I'm in too many things. I've got too many things going on. Just tell me what to do. Yes, I did. And just tell me what to do. I mean, you went and you made this amazing checklist. Like,
I now live and die by this checklist that you have to walk through. I mean, I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but you didn't take this loosely about how I needed a step -by -step map process. Like you went and held everybody's hand through the entire thing, I mean, the whole program, but this one PDF document that just is like, now that's up as a bookmark on my computer that I walk through side by side with my sales page process.
Oh my gosh, I'm so flattered. I love that I have a bookmark. It's an amazing checklist. Thank you. I mean, literally none of this would have existed without you mentioning anything of it to me because the timing was so perfect. I had the time to actually create this. I totally ran with your idea very quickly. And I remember you even saying like on more than one occasion, you're like, I can't believe that you're doing this. I can't believe you're running with this. Like, it's so cool to just see you like fly with this idea because I think from the time.
Two weeks is something that's in my head. So I think from the time you messaged me until the time that I had like shopped the idea around to make sure that there was a market for it, outlined it to figure out what I was actually going to sell because I sold it before I actually put it together. And then I really wanted to co -create it with you guys. And that really did happen. So everything that everyone came in the program wanting, I was able to then execute and.
It was wonderful because it gave me such a great foundation for a program to share with people. And then now going into the second launch of the program, I've restructured it. I noticed that there were some gaps in there, which is really funny because one of the biggest glaring gaps is that I didn't start with figuring out who to interview or who to feature in the case study. And so now I'm like, oh, this is perfect. Now I can have this situation that I can now plug the hole. But at the same time, when everyone was coming to me,
Brittany Herzberg (09:26.446) Last year, everybody had somebody in mind, whether it was they were going to be a copywriter doing this deliverable for a client, and they already had the client, they already knew who they were going to write for, several people did, or they knew who they wanted to write about in their own business, they were already coming in with that client. So how I built the airplane at the time makes sense. And it's great because now I have that foundation because I ran with the idea and I can just make it better. Like I can make the improvements now.
You have now written like your first done for you case study of several, I'm sure. And you had that checklist. Can you tell me a little bit about like what it was like actually being able to use some of the materials in the course to create that case study? Oh, my gosh. I mean, it was amazing. So I could just go in and you tell us what to do at each stage. So I had already watched the course through. So the whole thing.
So I kind of knew the why and then I could go back because you have so many plug and play templates because you have specific workflows kind of for each step. So the reaching out to clients, the interviewing, the SEO research, the gathering your outline together, the sending of an outline to the client, the first draft and then the final shebang. You have every single step.
so clear that I could just kind of jump in and I needed guidance at all those stuff. I mean, my brain was like, I'm just gonna let Brittany, like this is it, I'm just gonna do it. And so I could jump into each of those parts. It didn't take up a lot of time because I knew exactly where to go because I had your master document of where everything was, where I needed it. And so just to paint a visual, this master document has like, it's a checklist.
So you can check off where you are as you work through the first time through the program. But then you can go back and then there's the hyperlinks for the templates. There's the course, all the stuff that you need at each point is clearly, clearly there. So you have the roadmap and so you can see where you're going and where you need to go next. And so.
Jess Brooks (11:41.966) As I was working through, like I took your question sheet, for instance, and I worked it and made it kind of my own. And to have the confidence, like one of my biggest fears is that I'll miss something in an interview and a super perfectionist. So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to miss anything. And I just wanted to make sure that I would walk out with something very, very strong to work with. Cause I never want to go back to an interviewee and ask them questions.
I just wanted to be perfect the first round. So I went into those interviews and this was for a high profile person. I was really nervous and I was so confident going into that interview because I knew this was Brittany's process. This had been tested so many times. I wasn't going to miss something. So I've described that process. That was just the beginning and it was more valuable as we went on. That's amazing.
And I will say, it's funny that we're recording this right now because I am putting the final touches on the four -day email course about who and how to interview for a case study. And one of the things I'm mentioning, because I have done this, I have that same fear of, oh no, I'm going to miss something. But at some point, I was like, OK, Brittany, get over yourself. It's OK. You can go back and ask them on a question. Because I remember the first time I did it, I didn't know this person's professional title. So I'm like, oh, no.
at my keyboard. I'm at my laptop, fingers are on the keys, and I'm like, what do I call them? Oh, no. So I have actually addressed that in that email course about it's OK to go back and ask them a question. It's OK to go back and ask a follow up. And even if I'm ever doing the interviewing of the case study subject feature, whatever we want to call them, I even kind of like preface that at the end of the interview. I will say, you know, thanks so much. I really appreciate your time. Is it OK if I reach out if I have any like follow up or clarifying questions? So.
If you're listening to this and that's a fear of yours that you share with us, like people want to be helpful and they also really appreciate that attention to detail I have found. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I loved about your course was that there was these little details that you would only know if you had made the mistake once. So it was like all these tiny personable things you'd added because you have email templates.
Jess Brooks (14:03.47) because you have been through this before, and because you also have kind of this SEO background training, you had all these incredible ways not to miss things and to also gracefully ask if you need more information and stuff. Like all this is in your templates. It's incredible. Thank you. Thanks for saying that. I love the gold star for the attention to details. Thank you. I will receive that.
I think you've already kind of shared it, but like, did you have a favorite, favorite resource or is there like a second favorite resource since you did tell us about the checklist? Yes, your SEO research document was just incredible. I have done SEO in the past and I have not tracked what I've done. I didn't know if I was doing the right thing. So just to have, again, that confidence and then your template is like,
do this first, use these tools. I think I watched that video on SEO like three times. And then I went back and just followed the sheet. So you had the video and you showed all the tools to do SEO research and everything. And then the actual sheet that you can just go through. And that would be, I guess that's a sheet that you hand over to your clients, but I just wrote everything in the backend so that then I could work.
off of that to write the actual case study. So that was just incredible. And I came up magically with this amazing title that I'm so happy with because of that SEO document. Because - Oh, that's amazing. This is because I didn't have to spend all my creative energy on figuring out how to do SEO research. I followed it and I kept that stream of -
Like, yeah, I got this, I got this, I got this. And then by the time it got to actually thinking of a title, I was like, I know exactly what to call this case study. And it's rooted in research, it's SEO optimized. And my brain doesn't hurt because I had Brittany's step -by -step formula through the whole thing. So I could focus on like the real conversion stuff, like right off the bat. It was incredible. So thank you for that. Oh gosh, you're welcome. And I think in that, I remember going through that SEO.
Jess Brooks (16:20.974) document and just being like she thought of everything you had so many examples and you had so many Even just the fact that you included case studies that you had written that you show in the course you show your Google Drive with how you set up your client projects and stuff I think at that point I was watching all of that when I was doing SEO research and I was like, oh my goodness, like this is it I can do this so
Otherwise, I would have gotten really overwhelmed and I probably wouldn't have done that SEO research. And that value add for the client is so important. It is so important. And I love that you said that the SEO research can be done in 30 minutes. It doesn't have to be long. And do you feel like that's accurate? 100%. Because it's one thing for me to say it, but it's another thing for you to actually go through it. 100%. I mean, it took me longer because I was watching your stuff and making sure I had everything, but for sure, going back.
Now that I have the process, it's for sure 30 minutes, so easy. The tool, Ubersuggest, it's just incredible. So I didn't know about those tools. I didn't know anything. So just having that right there in front of me, such a time saver. That's really good to hear because I could talk about SEO and story all day long, but it can still sound intimidating to people. So to hear you be excited to talk about SEO and weaving in keywords and...
to then say that it made coming up with that case study title so much simpler and easier and it happened faster. Like that's what I love hearing because it's so possible. And like you said, moving forward, it'll just get quicker and faster and you'll get better and better. So I really love hearing that. The course has changed a good bit between the time that you took it and then how I'm structuring it now. There's a lot more hands on. There's four total live calls. We've got.
like a brand voice expert coming in and got Justin Blackman. I'm so excited. So with all of that said, the course has changed a good bit from when you took it. But how would you describe that to someone who's maybe like, OK, we've piqued their curiosity. They seem to be a little bit excited about like SEO and about the interview process and having all the questions and understanding the workflow and having the checklist. But how would you describe the course to people? Well, it's a step by step. Brittany, hold your hand through everything.
Jess Brooks (18:37.166) to capture the voices of the clients that you're helping so that you can really tell the story of what their transformation is and helping people see themselves in the story. So that's, I mean, that's the result of case studies are just so powerful. So this step -by -step, so well thought of course, with all the pieces leading you along to what you need so that you don't have to think as you go through.
this case study and write them for yourselves or for your clients. This is exactly what you need and everything that you need right here under one roof to have these results like right away. And the thing about it is that you don't have to think. So everything's there. It's almost like a puzzle that's already done for you. And then you can just go in and you can create results and really jump.
forward so that you're not stuck in the weeds and thinking about the process, you know, and you can just immediately write an amazing case study. You're not spending all this time trying to figure it out and figure out all these steps. It's like, it gets you from A to Z in one single course. You just have to like close your eyes and follow Brittany and then your case study is done. By the end, you have an amazing case study. So really, because you have the template of the case study laid out.
You have the examples of the case study laid out. Like it's a real get results course. I mean, there's the why there and you have all the videos for the why, but the how to do things is so robust in this course. Brittany, you've been so generous even in the first round. And I know it's just going to be even more amazing on the second and the future ones that it can only get more amazing. It's so robust and so.
well thought out and you've created this amazing, amazing program. Thank you. Thank you for saying that again, like so many different things coming in my brain, but and especially given the fact that like from idea to promotion, it was like two weeks. I think I took like five days to create all of the resources to film all of the things. And I made sure that there was like, um, my friend Leah helped me put together a private podcast because I remember going through trainings and I would inevitably end up having my phone.
Brittany Herzberg (20:53.966) plugging it into my car holder thing and logging into Teachable and then playing the thing and you have to figure out what lesson you were on and what minute mark you were at. And it was such a pain that I was like, I don't want to do that to people. So having the private podcast, my thought at least was like, they can go, they can pick up where they left off and just take that learning on the go. So I really love hearing that.
It felt like a robust course and it felt like everything was there, even though I kind of like was Speedy McSpeedster behind the scenes of like putting it all together. But it did really help that I have like, I know this work and I know it inside out and I do have the process. And so to be able to just like gift that to somebody and give them all the things that they really need to get it done, like I'm so grateful. You mentioned like being able to walk out with your case study done, you know, just by using all the stuff in there, which yes, that's totally the goal here. But like timing wise.
How long would you say ish that it took you to put together that done for you case study for your client? That's a really good question because I was really busy at the time and I almost was nervous to take it on this specific one. But I'd taken your course and I was like, I can do this. And because I had all the onboarding kind of stuff ready, I was able to send that out easily and just get the interview set up. And I had the roadmap and I wrote it in a week.
like or less even it was like within another project. I did it. It happened so, so fast. And the other thing I want to mention is that because I wasn't stuck in the weeds, because I wasn't second guessing my process, because I wasn't worried about if my information was right, like I always like to be right. And I always like it to be perfect. When I went into that case study, I remember I had a strategy call with a mentor of mine and I went in with this case study already done and
I was able to show it to him because I didn't waste any time on it. I had it finished so quick that I had it all laid out. And then I could spend much more time on the actual making. I mean, I want to say making it perfect, but in the sense of like creative wise, making it just a really good case study. And I could spend so much more time on the.
Jess Brooks (23:09.902) on the second or third or fourth draft, which is really where the magic happens. When you actually have time to get to like a sixth draft, that's a good draft, finally. So the fact that I didn't have to spend a lot of time on the first and second, because I used all your stuff, and then I could really push it to an amazing, we were nerding out and I got it to the point where it was like every paragraph had like an emotional kind of journey through each one. Like I could really have fun with it. And,
By the end, I was really proud of it. And it gave me the confidence to do more. That's the thing. It wasn't like I came out of there frustrated or came out of there with bad feelings about it. It was like, OK, that was fun. And it's such a win -win for everyone because the clients had success. So you're telling this story of transformation. Sorry, the client's client. But also, the client has this asset that they can use on their sales page, on the website, and not only in it, but
But there's pieces of content there that the case study picks up that then generates more content for them on social media or on their sales page. Maybe something of their messaging gets clearer for their offer. Your templates, it's just an incredible asset for anybody's brand, whether it's your clients or your own. I want to pull on this side for sure before we leave sales pages, because I know this is your jam. I love sales pages. I love you some sales pages. But you did mention using case studies on the sales page.
Will you give us, I don't know, your top tip on how to use case studies on a sales page? I would love to hear this. Yeah, so I have two. One of them is design -wise, and one of them is just content -wise. So when buyers come to your page, you're going to have that first buyer who's all in, I want this right away. They're coming to you hot. They know they want you. You're going to get them clicking right in that top fold, where they see the learn more buy.
Then you're also going to have, and this is happening more and more, the very slow buyers. And I am one of those. Even if I know I want something and I budgeted for it, I still want to read everything. And I want to make sure it's for me because I have 10 other courses lined up that I can't quite prioritize. So if you can convince me, if I can really see myself in someone's story. So using case studies on your sales page is where you can put a little button that's like,
Jess Brooks (25:34.99) read more about their story and click to another page and keep that person there even a little bit longer. And I know this goes against the grain of keeping people on your sales page at all times. I was just thinking that, I know, but I love this. And I'm the person that comes and visits your sales page 20 times before I buy. Same. For those people, like, you know, you want to make it fit within the thing and you don't want to drive them off, but you and you want to drive them back.
to be able to buy, but we're in the age where people really need a little bit more and they want to be able to trust you and they don't trust you talking about you. They want to see other people who have got the results to be able to trust you. So having that spot that where slower decision makers can go, and I say slower in the nicest way because I'm the slowest decision maker. We mean it with love. You can kind of like, totally.
You can go and you can get into another room and you can really experience your transformation. And I think that words are easy to say, OK, what's your transformation? And you can write it on your sales page. But to really see that transformation with data, with results, with that person's actual seeing their face beside it and seeing like the client who got results, seeing a real live person who could be you.
That's so important. And you want to be able to offer that to people who come to your sales page and who need a little more. So that is one thing. And then design -wise, where my UX training kind of comes in, where you kind of think about the design, it just offers so much more in terms of, I mean, you could have so much fun with this. You could have a little pop -up where the case study kind of adds that little interactivity. So.
One of my big things is to think about where your buyers are coming from. And especially now, if you're selling on Instagram. But if you drive them to a static sales page, if they've come from, for instance, your Instagram Live, where they were able to comment on your stuff, or they were able to talk about your stuff, and they're like, OK, I'm going to go check out our sales page. And they get to the sales page that's like, scroll through, kind of put them to sleep. But if you really found some fun ways to bring the
Jess Brooks (27:52.59) like this dopamine hit to them, like a pop -up that's like, read so -and -so's story or so -and -so got this result, like, hey, read more or this is her case study and kind of really serve them up that interactivity that mirrors what was just happening for them on Instagram. Like this is a full content layer to add into your sales page in a fun.
fun, fun way. So there's so many things. And then you can also pull from that case study. I mean, obviously, you have your testimonials from that case study once you've done it. But you can pull different bits. And it's also audience language to add rate into your sales page as well. So I would say it's just if you want to ramp up your sales page and really make it come into this century,
This is how you do it by exact audience language that you can add right into your sales page. So. I have so many ideas. Thank you. Because I'm definitely going back and adding some of your language to my sales page. And then even just thinking of the interactivity, I really hadn't thought about that from the UX perspective. But at this point, do my own web design for sales pages and things. And I know that there's some banners that I can put on there or even make the image pop up and like.
almost like wave at them. So I have so many thoughts there. But I really do feel like you were talking about this. These are my words, not yours. But I feel like case studies are the ultimate show, not tell, because you were talking about just like saying those phrases like so and so had this transformation. It's like, yeah, but like when you get them into the story and they can actually see it, you know, transpiring in front of their eyes, like and they can get their brains in on the activity as well. It's like so cool. OK, I love this. And we can't give all the secrets away. I really appreciate you taking the time.
to talk with us. I'm so grateful. I'm so thankful that you had the idea and that you came to me. And I know that there's probably more questions that people could possibly want to ask. So if you're OK with it, you want to tell us where people can find you? Yes, for sure. I'm at brooks underscore cooks on Instagram. You can find me there. We can also chat recipes. Yes. And yeah, for sure. Ask me anything. You're awesome. Thank you, friend. That was really something, wasn't it?
Brittany Herzberg (30:13.902) Let that really sink in and guide you toward being the answer to even more Google questions. Thanks so much for joining me this episode. You are the reason this show exists and that it keeps growing. You know, thanks to all those followers and reviews. If you know someone who could benefit from what was shared, send it to them. We don't do shy around here. If you thought of clarifying or follow up questions while listening, you know what to do. Say hi on Instagram. Check the show notes for all the things that were mentioned and I'll talk to you soon, friend.